Slavery - yes or no?

[Tristesse]

Time and contemplation. You should know that you worship everyday.. several times a day. Perhaps yourself.. perhaps other people, things, or actions.. ideals. You certainly worship your considerations in morality. Even now.

Why do you worship these things?

It's easy. I don't. I admire certain things or prefer certain things, but I do not worship them. Especially myself.

 

[9Westy9]

no to slavery

 

[Sleeppy]

It's easy. I don't. I admire certain things or prefer certain things, but I do not worship them. Especially myself.

Do you simply admire and prefer your standpoint on slavery? or is it more than that?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Is slavery a good or bad thing?

Depends. Usually bad, but situational ethics and all that.

bad for the slave for sure, but what about for the master?

Usually good... in the sense of being lucrative. But it could be bad for the master if his slave-owning ways corrupted his soul somehow.

it must be quite nice to have a group of slaves - free labour, people to look down upon, free entertainment and the like plus surely an immense ego boost.

See what I mean about the soul-corrupting business? Masters should be humble.

Now I know this thread has been done before but what really is the Biblical stance on this one?

I'd argue that the Bible is incapable of having a stance, but that might be a quibble.

How is it possible for Jesus and other such figures not to condemn slavery outright?

Jesus didn't condone homosexuality so far as I know, but surely he was in favor of it. So maybe he just never thought to talk about slavery and offer his moral opinion on it. (Or did he actually address and condone it? I really don't know.)

How about Spartacus, was he a hero or villain?

Hero, in my opinion. Anyone who throws off his shackles and pillages the villas of fatcat Romans has to be a hero.

Well, unless he was unnecessarily brutal about it.

Why should a slave repect his master instead of attacking him?

Why not both? You can kill a rabid dog without hating him. You can even kill him respectfully.

Why did the composers of the Bible not just remove these sections?

Probably because they agreed with it. Primitive times make primitive thought.

is it ever acceptable to keep a slave?

Sure. Let's say we're post-apocalypse and your family will starve to death unless you enslave a squad of the Klingons who just decimated the earth.

Enslave them in good conscience.

But I don't think it'd be right to go down right now, in our current culture, and round up a bunch of people off the street and make them hoe your garden.

Not unless they're wall-street types, I mean. That might be morally acceptable. We should think about legalizing that.

 

[Tristesse]

Do you simply admire and prefer your standpoint on slavery? or is it more than that?

I certainly don't worship my view on slavery. I value it as a moral standard. I think you're conflading worship with things I value.

 

[Sleeppy]

I certainly don't worship my view on slavery. I value it as a moral standard. I think you're conflating worship with things I value.

I am. Because if you value it as a moral standard, you value nothing short of it. And here - now, you are worshiping it. You are worshiping it by attempting to enforce it as the only view of value - the only moral value, whereas slavery has none (in any case).

 

[nnmartin]

Sure. Let's say we're post-apocalypse and your family will starve to death unless you enslave a squad of the Klingons who just decimated the earth.

Enslave them in good conscience.

I'm feel it to be likely that in Biblical times, slaves were not necessary for the survival of the species - but more used as a way to keep the rich happy and boost the economy, the Romans seemed to prosper under this system.

Hardly makes it right though.

another point which springs to mind is the extra marital affairs issue.

was the master allowed to have intercourse with his slave girl and if so wouldn't this be adultery or fornication?

 

[tumbleweed41]

I am. Because if you value it as a moral standard, you value nothing short of it. And here - now, you are worshiping it. You are worshiping it by attempting to enforce it as the only view of value - the only moral value, whereas slavery has none (in any case).

Non sequitur

 

[nnmartin]

the slavery in the Bible issue must be why so many right wingers jump onto the Christian bandwagon - it really is a serious flaw in the philosophy and can only be passed over by the general apologetics of 'different times, different methods'.

what if the master was an atheist and the slave a Jesus lover - should the slave still bow down to his human master then?

 

[tumbleweed41]

the slavery in the Bible issue must be why so many right wingers jump onto the Christian bandwagon - it really is a serious flaw in the philosophy and can only be passed over by the general apologetics of 'different times, different methods'.

what if the master was an atheist and the slave a Jesus lover - should the slave still bow down to his human master then?

According to Paul, yes.

Ephesians 6:5
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

 

[Sleeppy]

According to Paul, yes.

Ephesians 6:5
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

That last part is the most important, but it was overlooked.

 

[Tristesse]

I am. Because if you value it as a moral standard, you value nothing short of it. And here - now, you are worshiping it. You are worshiping it by attempting to enforce it as the only view of value - the only moral value, whereas slavery has none (in any case).

I never said it was my only moral value. I said its a value I have, I have many values I hold. I do not worship it. If you're going to play a semantics game like that then everything anyone values is equivalent to worship.

 

[nnmartin]

That last part is the most important, but it was overlooked.

but how on Earth can you equate an atheist slave master as deserving the same respect and obedience as Christ?

 

[cablescavenger]

Is slavery a good or bad thing?

bad for the slave for sure, but what about for the master?

it must be quite nice to have a group of slaves - free labour, people to look down upon, free entertainment and the like plus surely an immense ego boost.

Now I know this thread has been done before but what really is the Biblical stance on this one?

this is one area of the Bible that seems to me a major flaw.

How is it possible for Jesus and other such figures not to condemn slavery outright?

How about Spartacus, was he a hero or villain?

Why should a slave repect his master instead of attacking him?

Why did the composers of the Bible not just remove these sections?

is it ever acceptable to keep a slave?

I haven't given it much thought, but I do have a list of jobs that need doing.

I don't suppose you know where I can get a slave form do you? Are there any Kennels we can go to and choose one?

 

[Sleeppy]

I never said it was my only moral value. I said its a value I have, I have many values I hold. I do not worship it. If you're going to play a semantics game like that then everything anyone values is equivalent to worship.

I made sure I put "a" in front of "moral standard". I know you have more standards. I consider anything valued as a moral standard.. or even valued as just standard to themselves as an object of their worship. Something considered standard is obviously the only important and desired thing, compared to anything short of it, which would be undesired and discredited.

 

[Sleeppy]

but how on Earth can you equate an atheist slave master as deserving the same respect and obedience as Christ?

I don't. How could you possibly obey two beings contrary to each other?

Matthew 6:24 'None is able to serve two lords, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will hold to the one, and despise the other; ye are not able to serve God and Mammon.

The command is really to obey Christ (who obeys the Father). Which is why that last part is most important. You see, while Christ was here on earth, he obeyed many things. But even in obeying these things, He obeyed the Father.

 

[Tristesse]

I made sure I put "a" in front of "moral standard". I know you have more standards. I consider anything valued as a moral standard.. or even valued as just standard to themselves as an object of their worship. Something considered standard is obviously the only important and desired thing, compared to anything short of it, which would be undesired and discredited.

Would you call anything anyone values worship? For instance, I value a my car. Do I also worship my car? Because the two words actually have different meanings.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

was the master allowed to have intercourse with his slave girl and if so wouldn't this be adultery or fornication?

I might be a little lost. You're asking how an ancient, Roman, slave-owning Christian would reconcile sex-with-his-slave-girl with Biblical teachings?

I dunno, but I'm thinking it was probably an easy mental manuever for him. If he'd force himself on the slave girl, he probably wasn't much of a theologian in the first place.

 

[Sleeppy]

Would you call anything anyone values worship? For instance, I value a my car. Do I also worship my car? Because the two words actually have different meanings.

Anyone? No.

Why do you value your car?

 

[Carpenter Rabbi]

but how on Earth can you equate an atheist slave master as deserving the same respect and obedience as Christ?

I don't see how ANYONE could view ANY slavemaster as deserving the same respect and obedience as your Christ.