Slavery - yes or no?

[tumbleweed41]

ok, so why does the Bible allow it?

Because it was written by men for whom slavery was part of the social norm. At that time, place and situation, slavery was written into the moral code because they considered slavery to be an ethical practice.
Slaves of your own tribe were treated better and under differing rules because those outside the tribe could be considered as lesser people. What we today would consider blatant prejudice.

In other words, what is considered ethical and moral has changed and evolved as society has changed and evolved over the last 4000 years.

 

[Sleeppy]

Bad.

Well, it depends on whether or not you value freedom as a moral standard. And if you do, then you cannot justify slavery as a morally good thing. Plus, what would prevent you from being enslaved?

If freedom is the moral standard, so is the ability to lose it... According to most people's view on the justice system in the US. What do you say about the justice system you have?

 

[Sleeppy]

Is slavery a good or bad thing?

bad for the slave for sure, but what about for the master?

it must be quite nice to have a group of slaves - free labour, people to look down upon, free entertainment and the like plus surely an immense ego boost.

Now I know this thread has been done before but what really is the Biblical stance on this one?

this is one area of the Bible that seems to me a major flaw.

How is it possible for Jesus and other such figures not to condemn slavery outright?

How about Spartacus, was he a hero or villain?

Why should a slave repect his master instead of attacking him?

Why did the composers of the Bible not just remove these sections?

is it ever acceptable to keep a slave?

You left this to be answered by everyone but those able to answer it.

 

[Tristesse]

If freedom is the moral standard, so is the ability to lose it... According to most people's view on the justice system in the US. What do you say about the justice system you have?

I didn't say it's THE moral standard, I said if you view it as A moral standard. I find the justice system to be fair in certail cases and unjust in other cases.

 

[Tristesse]

You left this to be answered by everyone but those able to answer it.

What qualifies as someone able to answer it?

 

[Dezzie]

Never, it is unjust and dehumanizing. The authors of the bible were primitive savages.

I could not agree more. I highly disagree with the use of slaves. If someone were to "volunteer", well... so be it... but as a "master" you should let them live under your own roof, dine with you, and should always treat them as equals. Respect them as human beings.

 

[arthra]

I'd have to really disagree here that the authors of the Bible were "primitive savages"... When it was revealed over two thousand years ago there were wars, slavery and prostitution.. there was slavery in most countries until nineteenth century:

Slavery in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A Christian John Woolman was one of those who preached against slavery when Goerge Washington and Jefferson had slaves..

Full text of "Considerations on the keeping of Negroes : recommended to the professors of Christianity of every denomination"

Today slavery is almost totally extinct as it should be..

So was everyone up until the nineteenth century "primitive savages"... because slavery was around then? I think not..

There are new forms of slavery though that developed.. industrial slavery...sexual slavery

See:

Sexual slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[England my lionheart]

Is slavery a good or bad thing?

Bad,i don't think it should take thousands of years to work that one out.

bad for the slave for sure, but what about for the master?

Good,free labour and sex

it must be quite nice to have a group of slaves - free labour, people to look down upon, free entertainment and the like plus surely an immense ego boost.

And Bank balance

Now I know this thread has been done before but what really is the Biblical stance on this one?

Its ok to own slaves as long as you don't hit them so hard that they die

this is one area of the Bible that seems to me a major flaw.

Not so weird when you Jockey on the back of other religions,you inherit their flaws too

How is it possible for Jesus and other such figures not to condemn slavery outright?

Because it was the norm to own slaves in them old ancient times.

How about Spartacus, was he a hero or villain?

Hero,it would have been great if they had all escaped from Rome though.

Why should a slave repect his master instead of attacking him?

I guess being beaten repeatedly with a stick would put them off

Why did the composers of the Bible not just remove these sections?

Men wrote the scriptures so what benefits Men stays in

is it ever acceptable to keep a slave?

Never,its actually disgusting that these holy books contain instructions on how to treat slaves,its also disgusting that in some parts of the world its still ok to do with what you will with what your right hand posseses because it is written.

 

[Sleeppy]

I didn't say it's THE moral standard, I said if you view it as A moral standard. I find the justice system to be fair in certail cases and unjust in other cases.

Either way.. freedom as a moral standard has its qualifications, as well as its disqualifications. So if all slavery is bad, then you'd consider going to each prison warden saying, "Let my people go."

What qualifies as someone able to answer it?

Someone who knows.. specifically about Biblical slavery. But, not many people do know. And less to none from different religious or non religious thought.

 

[Tristesse]

Either way.. freedom as a moral standard has its qualifications, as well as its disqualifications. So if all slavery is bad, then you'd consider going to each prison warden saying, "Let my people go.".

Thats not slavery, thats an application of the justice system.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

We already have slaves, we still have slavery, and almost everybody partakes in it, so people who have said no actually should've said "there's acceptions".

And, since I'm not for world peace my vote is: "there's acceptions"

 

[nnmartin]

But you need to take into consideration that all slave owners were required to provide food, clothing and shelter for a slave...even wives were provided to slaves if the slave wanted a wife. So that is the compensation in lieu of a monetary wage and can be considered a wage of sorts.

so do you mean like livestock then?

even a farmyard pig, goat or horse needs to be given adequate food and shelter as otherwise it would die and thus be of no more value to the master.

exactly the same with a human so really this is no wage at all - just the basic subsistence to keep the slave alive in order to continue working for free.

how can this be considered 'a wage of sorts'?

 

[Sleeppy]

Thats not slavery, thats an application of the justice system.

So there's a new name for it..

 

[zenzero]

Friend nnmartin,

Your selective responses makes it appear that you know the answers to all the queries that you keep posing and only just matching your own reply with others!
Love & rgds

 

[nnmartin]

ok, well what is your question then and I will answer it?

also, I cannot answer every post that comes my way.

 

[nnmartin]

all this talk of slavery and times being different in the past reminds me of another recent thread I posted - namely 'The 3rd Testament'.

in that I asked whether a 3rd Testament needs to be written or not.

it seems to me that this must be the case.

we have the 4000 year old OT in which stoning to death is ok - ok for that time perhaps but not now.

Then in the NT we have some change, and a prophecy of a better future - but still not enough change. Here we have done away with the stoning but slaves are still taught to respect their master though the proviso is added that the master must be fair.

Hence the latest Testament should do away with this arrangement altogether.

of course, this does leave the problem of 'if we can disregard the Bible's stance on slavery due to its historical context then what else can we disregard?

With other morality laws can we pass over without completely distorting the message?

 

[zenzero]

Friend nnmartin,

You are free to manage it the way you wish
This is your thread.
Personally the days of questioning are over, it is only practice that am totally involved into and in view of that had responded to your query [post no.40]
If you do not agree, you are free to express so.

Love & rgds

 

[nnmartin]

Most of us are *slaves* of our own desires.
It surely is a no no provided you know you have a choice and have evaluated the other option seriously!

well, a bit hard to respond to this specifically.

but we sure are slaves of our own desires I agree and much Christian thought is similar to Buddhism in the respect of doing away with these desires and wanting God only instead.

but if this is the case, then why does the Bible condone keeping other people as slaves?

The Christian mystics I have a lot of time for - they seem to be on the right track yet the orthodox church of the past and still today seem intent on dismissing them as heretics. The mystics are the ones that cherish the idea of lack of desire for material gain.

why is it that the mainstream churches will still not accept them? (generally speaking)

 

[Tristesse]

So there's a new name for it..

They're two different things. Slavery, and punishment for crimes. The slavery in the bible is very much like the slavery we're familiar with. In fact, it has instructions for how to beat your slaves and how much you can buy them for.

 

[zenzero]

Friend nnmartin,

The Christian mystics I have a lot of time for - they seem to be on the right track yet the orthodox church of the past and still today seem intent on dismissing them as heretics. The mystics are the ones that cherish the idea of lack of desire for material gain.
why is it that the mainstream churches will still not accept them? (generally speaking)

Mystics are universal whatever be the path they follow.
Rgds organised religions?? The path becomes an *ism* and so like any *isms* have their weaknesses/pitfalls!

Love & rgds