Slavery in the Bible: more than meets the eye?

[SkepticThinker]

I'm not asking you to boast, I'm asking you to give a firm piece of evidence that you're not a hypocrite in this area--calling me out for adoring a book you don't like while living your life as though you tacitly agree with the (falsely believed) stance of said book!

Put differently, I CAN talk about slavery because I FIGHT slavery. You?

Why? I could say absolutely anything on the internet. And it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Ask yourself though, why would I spend all this time talking about morality if it's not something that I care about? Think about it.

You fight slavery while simultaneously defending it. I find that strange.

No, I do not live my life as though I tacitly agree with the immoral things found in the Bible. I don't own slaves, I don't promote the ownership of human beings as property, and if I see slavery occurring somewhere, I will do what I can to fight it. What I also do not do, is to promote a book that condones slavery as some kind of beacon of morality.

 

[BilliardsBall]

That's wonderful. I'm glad to hear it.
You're very good at boasting, as well.

I don't feel the need to boast about the things I do in my life on the internet. Especially when you're just trying to deflect from the discussion we're trying to have about morality. What I will tell you, is that I'm training to be an addictions counselor. I'd like to get back to the discussion about morality though.

For the record, I will always "talk smack" about ancient books that purport to convey universal god morality while commanding and condoning immoral actions from its readers. Sorry.

Good for you, you will earn money to help the addicted, while I pay money to help them escape addiction, and pay.

Bottom line: When you do 1/50th of what I've done to help people in bondage, you can lecture me on slavery in an ancient book.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Good for you, you will earn money to help the addicted, while I pay money to help them escape addiction, and pay.

Yeah, helping people work through the problems that got them addicted in the first place is worthless next to your heroic deeds. Somebody get this guy a cookie!

Dude, it's not a competition. We all have different skills to contribute to the world.

My father was an addict, by the way. That's what drew me to this line of work. Want to try to one up me on that one too?

Bottom line: When you do 1/50th of what I've done to help people in bondage, you can lecture me on slavery in an ancient book.

As long as you defend and promote a book that supports slavery and other acts of immorality, you're the hypocrite you were trying to make me out to be.
Or maybe we're both just people doing our best to do the right thing.


So I'm guessing you don't want to get off the personal stuff and get back to the discussion how to determine moral actions?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Yeah, helping people work through the problems that got them addicted in the first place is worthless next to your heroic deeds. Somebody get this guy a cookie!

Dude, it's not a competition. We all have different skills to contribute to the world.

My father was an addict, by the way. That's what drew me to this line of work. Want to try to one up me on that one too?


As long as you defend and promote a book that supports slavery and other acts of immorality, you're the hypocrite you were trying to make me out to be.
Or maybe we're both just people doing our best to do the right thing.


So I'm guessing you don't want to get off the personal stuff and get back to the discussion how to determine moral actions?

I'm sorry you dealt with some trauma because of a wayward parent. I appreciate your wanting to help others, and appreciate your using your mind and talents to help others overcome addiction.

I recommend you study the biblical declarations about addictions, trauma and overcoming.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'm sorry you dealt with some trauma because of a wayward parent. I appreciate your wanting to help others, and appreciate your using your mind and talents to help others overcome addiction.

I appreciate that. Hopefully it helps you see where I am coming from.
I don't have gobs of money to donate, but I contribute the best I can. Where I live, we have a good deal of social programs that I can get into to offer mental health services at little to no cost to those who need it.

I recommend you study the biblical declarations about addictions, trauma and overcoming.

My father tried that, but unfortunately did not find it helpful. I don't want to misrepesent him either; he was a very decent and kind person. He just had a lot of issues he was not equipped to deal with and turned to drugs as a coping mechanism. My goal is to help people like him.

 

[tas8831]

Bottom line: When you do 1/50th of what I've done to help people in bondage, you can lecture me on slavery in an ancient book.

The Ancient Book that condones the slavery you fight against? Sounds like you're going to Hell.

 

[Muffled]

They're probably referring to this:

44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Leviticus 25:44-46

That's not indentured servitude. That's outright slavery - the owning of human beings as property. The people mentioned in these verses are not selling themselves into slavery. They're being bought and sold and passed down as property.

I agree and I can't claim that it is different from American slavery since the verse does not specify how the marketed slaves were captured. It is a good thing we don't have to abide by ancient laws but can show the love of Jesus instead.

 

[tas8831]

Sorry, but Jesus has the quietus:

‘Love your neighbor as you love yourself.'

Ah, so that totally undoes all of the very clear Scripture condoning Slavery, and justifies the lies told by YouTube Evangelicals about how slavery was only about paying of debts?
How convenient!

And if everyone does that, there will no longer be any slavery.

I agree. Odd then that so many Christians go to so much trouble to lie about the condoning of slavery in the bible..

That was 2,000 years ago.

Learn it. Embrace it. Teach it. Then you will be wise.

Learn which, now?

The part where the bible is OK with slavery, or the non-condemnation of slavery that you're hiding behind now?

And weird, I thought your amazing bible study showed that slavery was ONLY about:

1. Voluntary servitude as a way of existence.

2. Punishment by God on sinful men and nations for their crimes against God and humanity.

3. A sin - enslaving one's fellow man - that wasn't approved by God.

And from my studies, that's it.​

So I guess you are sort of admitting that, golly, you just didn't notice LEVITICUS in your in-depth "study"?

AMAZING!

 

[Muffled]

No, I am referring to Hebrew slavery of foreigners as cited. Yes, American slavery was justified by those holding slaves using those citations cited in this thread.

Indentured servitude.was described in the Bible as Hebrew indentured servants of Hebrews.

I believe the americans were in error on two points. 1. They were not Israelites 2. they were not under the law of Moses.

 

[tas8831]

I agree and I can't claim that it is different from American slavery since the verse does not specify how the marketed slaves were captured. It is a good thing we don't have to abide by ancient laws but can show the love of Jesus instead.

Is Jesus God in your view?

 

[tas8831]

I believe the americans were in error on two points. 1. They were not Israelites 2. they were not under the law of Moses.

So are you one of these folks that claims the stuff you don't like in the bible only pertained to Israelites and can thus be ignored? Like the Prosperity Gospel sinners?

 

[Muffled]

I don't know what you mean. If Jesus is God, then I wonder if Jesus would have done the same. I expect that a God is consistent with His moral imperatives and justifications.

Would Jesus have killed women, children, etc. to save Himself? Is that part of His teachings: to kill babies if that is required to save yourself?

If not, why not? Is God schizophrenic?

Ciao

- viole

I believe God deals with people in the condition they are in and with the relationship He has with them. In other words there are different strokes for different folks.

 

[Muffled]

Is Jesus God in your view?

I believe He is.

 

[Muffled]

So are you one of these folks that claims the stuff you don't like in the bible only pertained to Israelites and can thus be ignored? Like the Prosperity Gospel sinners?

I believe I am one who follows The Way.

 

[tas8831]

I agree--unless God is influencing us at the subconscious level.

Nor do I understand your version of subjective morality: "Biblical slavery is bad, yet BB has given much money and time to end modern sex trafficking and slavery, and I've given none, so for a hobby I will condemn his ancient book of myths."

Subjective morality--or hypocrisy--pick one, please!

Cool non-sequiturs! You are becoming rather unhinged of late.

 

[shunyadragon]

I believe the americans were in error on two points. 1. They were not Israelites 2. they were not under the law of Moses.

Does not address the issue that; yes the Bible justifies slavery based on what they considered Divine Law, and yes the Americans as well as other Christians in history justified slavery believing that the Laws of the Bible describing slavery were Divine Laws.

 

[shunyadragon]

I believe God deals with people in the condition they are in and with the relationship He has with them. In other words there are different strokes for different folks.

Than you believe that God's Law is selective and inconsistent from one tribe or the other.

Would it be justified for Jews have slaves today?

Where in the NT is slavery forbidden?

 

[tas8831]

I believe He is.

So He was OK with slavery before he came to us as Jesus.

And then Jesus said to love thy neighbor, and that negated the extensive writings on the codes of conduct for Hebrew slave owners in the OT?

Not sure I buy that, sorry.

 

[tas8831]

Put differently, I CAN talk about slavery because I FIGHT slavery. You?

So, you're fighting against that which Jehovah condoned?

 

[tas8831]

I believe God deals with people in the condition they are in and with the relationship He has with them. In other words there are different strokes for different folks.

So much for the claims of "objective morality from the Bible".