Slavery in the Bible: more than meets the eye?

[BilliardsBall]

Logically speaking that is a non sequitur.of course, I can, or are you arrogating yourself the monopoly of morality based on what an imaginary being tells you?

And what I believe is not relevant. What interests me what you think. You seem to think that slashing kids against walls and ripping women apart with a sword can be moral acts.

Ciao

- viole

Psalmists expressed their frustrations at these specific acts brought against the Jewish people. They wrote "happy is he who does the same to you":

1) They did not write "happy we'll be when WE do it"--they were in captivity, tormented

2) They were expressing honest sorrow and frustration

 

[tas8831]

Hi

Very clever, but it is not a win if you ignore the context of the Biblical outline.


The way you guys interpret things you would be accusing Shakespeare of promoting suicide with his "to be or not to be"

Right - we must remember that the Creator God of the Universe and ALL LIFE was, according to His most studious and righteous worshippers, 100% incapable of proscribing slavery before they had become entrenched in His creation for some reason, and then later - you know, since it was already a thing - had no means at all to make his mere creations stop enslaving each other.
I mean, gosh - so many people were already doing it, how on earth could He have done anything???

Apologetics is so easy, even a child can do it!

 

[tas8831]

You lot are so damned shallow, your petty snide arguments do not even approach the real issues. To claim that you are morally superior to your forbears is asinine and lazy thinking.

Hilarious!

The self-righteousness just oozes from the most desperate of apologists.

Great arguments, by the way - 'my GOD could not do a darn thing about slavery 'cuz golly, it was already a thing!

And you want to call US shallow and naive and lazy???

Look in the mirror, little fella.

 

[tas8831]

So you're saying that there is a "context" in which it's okay to keep slaves?

Oh, sure - it was like totally cool back then because they were already doing it... while God looked on...

Isn't that an AMAZING argument??

Not as absurdly dishonest and stupid as claiming slavery was just about paying off debts, but zany and sad, all the same..

 

[tas8831]

The people at the time accepted it as moral so who are you to judge them. That is part of the context you miss.

The people that your GOD had created and given laws to? THOSE people?

THEY thought it was OK?

THAT is your bible-rescuing argument?

And people wonder why young people are leaving Christianity!

From Fox (so it MUST be 100% true!) in 2018:

"A new, 2018 Pew Research Center Report polled a growing group in America: “religious nones.” This group describes themselves as “nothing in particular” when asked if they identify with a specific religious group. The vast majority are ex-Christians, and most are under the age of 35. "

 

[Spartan]

Right - we must remember that the Creator God of the Universe and ALL LIFE was, according to His most studious and righteous worshippers, 100% incapable of proscribing slavery before they had become entrenched in His creation for some reason, and then later - you know, since it was already a thing - had no means at all to make his mere creations stop enslaving each other.
I mean, gosh - so many people were already doing it, how on earth could He have done anything???

Apologetics is so easy, even a child can do it!

Flush.

From my review, slavery in the Bible was usually one of three things:

1. Voluntary servitude as a way of existence.

2. Punishment by God on sinful men and nations for their crimes against God and humanity.

3. A sin - enslaving one's fellow man - that wasn't approved by God.

And from my studies, that's it.

And in the end, God does end slavery, and he will cast the stiff-necked God-mockers into the Lake of Fire (Rev. 21:8).

 

[tas8831]

Flush.

From my review, slavery in the Bible was usually one of three things:

1. Voluntary servitude as a way of existence.

2. Punishment by God on sinful men and nations for their crimes against God and humanity.

3. A sin - enslaving one's fellow man - that wasn't approved by God.

And from my studies, that's it.

And in the end, God does end slavery, and he will cast the stiff-necked God-mockers into the Lake of Fire (Rev. 21:8).

Did you study any of this:

Leviticus 25:44
Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
Leviticus 25:45
Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
Leviticus 25:46
And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.

Whence:
1. Voluntary servitude as a way of existence.

2. Punishment by God on sinful men and nations for their crimes against God and humanity.

3. A sin - enslaving one's fellow man - that wasn't approved by God.
????

Or:

Exodus 21

4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.


7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.



Sorry - not buying it.

 

[Spartan]

Did you study any of this:

Leviticus 25:44
Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
Leviticus 25:45
Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
Leviticus 25:46
And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.

Whence:
1. Voluntary servitude as a way of existence.

2. Punishment by God on sinful men and nations for their crimes against God and humanity.

3. A sin - enslaving one's fellow man - that wasn't approved by God.
????

Or:

Exodus 21

4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.


7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.



Sorry - not buying it.

Sorry, but Jesus has the quietus:

‘Love your neighbor as you love yourself.'

And if everyone does that, there will no longer be any slavery.

That was 2,000 years ago.

Learn it. Embrace it. Teach it. Then you will be wise.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Sorry, but Jesus has the quietus:

‘Love your neighbor as you love yourself.'

And if everyone does that, there will no longer be any slavery.

That was 2,000 years ago.

Learn it. Embrace it. Teach it. Then you will be wise.

The NT has also statements telling a runaway slave to return to his master.
Jesus also said that not one iota of the law would be changed.

And even so, nothing the NT says, changes anything about god being more then ok with slavery in the OT.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes, humans should consider the consequences of their moral actions.

We know far more about the world now than our ancestors did, yes.

We agree on those points, great!

So you can see that we don't need any god(s) in order to make moral decisions and to exercise morality.

 

[BilliardsBall]

We agree on those points, great!

So you can see that we don't need any god(s) in order to make moral decisions and to exercise morality.

I agree--unless God is influencing us at the subconscious level.

Nor do I understand your version of subjective morality: "Biblical slavery is bad, yet BB has given much money and time to end modern sex trafficking and slavery, and I've given none, so for a hobby I will condemn his ancient book of myths."

Subjective morality--or hypocrisy--pick one, please!

 

[SkepticThinker]

I agree--unless God is influencing us at the subconscious level.

You'd have to demonstrate that first.

Nor do I understand your version of subjective morality: "Biblical slavery is bad, yet BB has given much money and time to end modern sex trafficking and slavery, and I've given none, so for a hobby I will condemn his ancient book of myths."

I'm not sure what is so difficult. It's pretty simple. If morality is about anything, it's about well-being. My well-being, your well-being
Would you want to be owned by another person as property? Why, or why not? Do you think being owned as property maximizes your well being, and the well-being of others and society as a whole, or does it minimize it?

Good for you for donating money to end sex trafficking. I see that as a morally correct action because it can potentially increase the well-being of sentient creatures. A big, hearty pat on the back to you. I'm going to have to ask yet again that you cease and desist from perverting my points and arguments into something they are not.

As to condemning ancient books of myths ... you bet your bottom dollar that I will do that when I have people citing said ancient book of myths as some kind of morally superior documents inspired and commanded by invisible deities. Especially when said book condones slavery and genocide and I have to sit and watch human beings defending such nonsense. And especially in a thread that is specifically about SLAVERY IN THE BIBLE. I guess you can cry about being victimized if you want to, but nobody is forcing you to participate in the thread.

Subjective morality--or hypocrisy--pick one, please!

What hypocrisy are you referring to? Please elaborate.

 

[BilliardsBall]

You'd have to demonstrate that first.



I'm not sure what is so difficult. It's pretty simple. If morality is about anything, it's about well-being. My well-being, your well-being
Would you want to be owned by another person as property? Why, or why not? Do you think being owned as property maximizes your well being, and the well-being of others and society as a whole, or does it minimize it?

Good for you for donating money to end sex trafficking. I see that as a morally correct action because it can potentially increase the well-being of sentient creatures. A big, hearty pat on the back to you. I'm going to have to ask yet again that you cease and desist from perverting my points and arguments into something they are not.

As to condemning ancient books of myths ... you bet your bottom dollar that I will do that when I have people citing said ancient book of myths as some kind of morally superior documents inspired and commanded by invisible deities. Especially when said book condones slavery and genocide and I have to sit and watch human beings defending such nonsense. And especially in a thread that is specifically about SLAVERY IN THE BIBLE. I guess you can cry about being victimized if you want to, but nobody is forcing you to participate in the thread.


What hypocrisy are you referring to? Please elaborate.

It is hypocrisy IMHO to do nothing regarding free trade, sex slavery, etc. as you seem to be (not) doing, than accuse me, who has given a LOT of time and money toward helping the poor, sex slaves, the oppressed, etc. while attacking my favorite book.

You are a hypocrite. Please go away.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It is hypocrisy IMHO to do nothing regarding free trade, sex slavery, etc. as you seem to be (not) doing, than accuse me, who has given a LOT of time and money toward helping the poor, sex slaves, the oppressed, etc. while attacking my favorite book.

You are a hypocrite. Please go away.

What a crock. How on earth do you know what I do, or do not do in regards to such things? That's pretty presumptuous of you.

But hey, at least I'm not here defending an ancient book full of terrible tales while claiming it's moral.


Attacking your favourite book? Come on, dude. Grow up.


I just noticed too, it's kind of strange the way you ignore my explanation as to how I make moral decisions, and instead decided to attempt to attack me on a personal level, which of course is off base because you have no idea what you're talking about. I find it very telling that you would ignore the intellectual aspect of the discussion in favour of that.

 

[Audie]

Logically speaking that is a non sequitur.of course, I can, or are you arrogating yourself the monopoly of morality based on what an imaginary being tells you?

And what I believe is not relevant. What interests me what you think. You seem to think that slashing kids against walls and ripping women apart with a sword can be moral acts.

Ciao

- viole

It is good to see the gears working in the mind
or those we must do everything possible to keep
out of power.

Rip with sword, dash on wall?
Those are nothing. A quick, more or less
painless death.

A god that prescribes endless torture for
those who fail to please him readily justifies
the tortures of the inquisition, or for that matter,
elsewhere and else when practiced by "Christians".

Say in Jamaica, where a standard way to discourage
runaway slaves was to chain them down, then slow
burn them up, starting with the feet.

Whats the big deal? A few hours of that, compared
to the rest of eternity?

 

[BilliardsBall]

What a crock. How on earth do you know what I do, or do not do in regards to such things? That's pretty presumptuous of you.

But hey, at least I'm not here defending an ancient book full of terrible tales while claiming it's moral.


Attacking your favourite book? Come on, dude. Grow up.


I just noticed too, it's kind of strange the way you ignore my explanation as to how I make moral decisions, and instead decided to attempt to attack me on a personal level, which of course is off base because you have no idea what you're talking about. I find it very telling that you would ignore the intellectual aspect of the discussion in favour of that.

What DO you do "in regard to such things"?

 

[SkepticThinker]

What DO you do "in regard to such things"?

Well, for starters, I don't promote a book that condones slavery and genocide as the authoritative word from God on morality.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Well, for starters, I don't promote a book that condones slavery and genocide as the authoritative word from God on morality.

That seems to be not just your "starter" but your "finisher". I've given thousands of dollars and worked for a nonprofit at a sacrificial salary, etc. to FREE people from slavery and other addictions, at-risk behaviors, and poverty.

YOUR TURN. Unless you've actually done something to define yourself away from "hypocrite who talks smack about the Bible while letting his world burn!"

 

[SkepticThinker]

That seems to be not just your "starter" but your "finisher". I've given thousands of dollars and worked for a nonprofit at a sacrificial salary, etc. to FREE people from slavery and other addictions, at-risk behaviors, and poverty.

YOUR TURN. Unless you've actually done something to define yourself away from "hypocrite who talks smack about the Bible while letting his world burn!"

That's wonderful. I'm glad to hear it.
You're very good at boasting, as well.

I don't feel the need to boast about the things I do in my life on the internet. Especially when you're just trying to deflect from the discussion we're trying to have about morality. What I will tell you, is that I'm training to be an addictions counselor. I'd like to get back to the discussion about morality though.

For the record, I will always "talk smack" about ancient books that purport to convey universal god morality while commanding and condoning immoral actions from its readers. Sorry.

 

[BilliardsBall]

That's wonderful. I'm glad to hear it.
You're very good at boasting, as well.

I don't feel the need to boast about the things I do in my life on the internet. Especially when you're just trying to deflect from the discussion we're trying to have about morality. What I will tell you, is that I'm training to be an addictions counselor. I'd like to get back to the discussion about morality though.

For the record, I will always "talk smack" about ancient books that purport to convey universal god morality while commanding and condoning immoral actions from its readers. Sorry.

I'm not asking you to boast, I'm asking you to give a firm piece of evidence that you're not a hypocrite in this area--calling me out for adoring a book you don't like while living your life as though you tacitly agree with the (falsely believed) stance of said book!

Put differently, I CAN talk about slavery because I FIGHT slavery. You?