If ceremonial knives are ok, why make an exception, why not allow them to all parents?
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Sikh Queenslanders allowed to carry ceremonial knives in schools after court ruling
- Thread starter danieldemol
- Start date
Treks
Well-Known Member
Technically tiny kirpan charms would suffice.
However, the purpose of the kirpan is to defend the defenceless. A Khalsa Sikh (an initiated Sikh) is a soldier-saint. Their initiation is meant to be into an army.
Ideally the kirpan would be long enough and sharp enough to be a useful weapon if required, and the Khalsa Sikh would be trained in its use. [EDIT: This statement is my opinion. While the history and meaning behind the kirpan was as weapon of defense, its modern use is symbolic.]
However in modern days it's all just symbolic. So it might as well just be a charm.
However, the purpose of the kirpan is to defend the defenceless. A Khalsa Sikh (an initiated Sikh) is a soldier-saint. Their initiation is meant to be into an army.
Ideally the kirpan would be long enough and sharp enough to be a useful weapon if required, and the Khalsa Sikh would be trained in its use. [EDIT: This statement is my opinion. While the history and meaning behind the kirpan was as weapon of defense, its modern use is symbolic.]
However in modern days it's all just symbolic. So it might as well just be a charm.
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Treks
Well-Known Member
Yeah, can Scottish people wear the little knife strapped to their shin? The majority of my DNA *is* Scottish, after all...
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
I think as a fisher of crocodiles that would be considered a tool of trade
No idea - don't live in Australia.
Just thinking about this from the context of my own country, which prohibits knifes in schools. It's proper to grant exception for ceremonial religious regalia, which Sikh knives are.
I suppose if Australia is a knifing culture and wants knives for everyone, maybe they repeal it for everyone?
What??? Why???
So what about Christian sects that claim guns are part of their culture, ceremonial guns? It will be interesting to see how it all plays out i guess
Treks
Well-Known Member
Can they demonstrate any official religious basis for their claim, that for the purpose of this comparison, they make a vow to carry?
Sikhs have been making this vow for 300 years.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
That sounds about right. I lived in Vancouver, Canada for 50 years and we had a very large South Asian community that, for the most part, are lovely people. Also in nearby Surrey, BC, there is a large Sikh population. Other than some pretty spectacular drug/murder investigations, most of the violence in the community was likely Khalistani-related. Some of the older firebrands have now died off or are in jail and it sounds like things have more or less settled down into regular drugs/gang violence. The only difference is our gangs are mostly South Asian, Viet Namese, Korean, Chinese, etc due to our enormous ethnic communities. (American based gangs are here but I rarely hear anything about them.)
He was in America in that scene.
I think all they would need is for a declaration from a religious leader that it is a mandatory aspect of their religion. I don't know of any, but I dont see anything stopping pro-gun religious leaders from retrospectively making such a declaration in light of this new interpretation of the law.
No...it does indeed allow for Sikh children to carry a kirpan. What was meant was that the was a specific exemption for a 'real religious requirement' as opposed to an amendment to the general rule.
Where to start?
1) Crocodile Dundee was not really a documentary...ahem...
2) Crocodile Dundee was filmed in '86, whilst the majority of knife laws came in the mid 90's (when knife violence somewhat escalated after gun bans, from memory)
3) People in the far outback could probably give 2 craps for knife laws, and would do whatever they want.
No, the law is interesting. The knife laws specifically allow for religious excemptions (and always have) where there are 'real religious requirements'. The only reason this case became an issue was that there is also specific bans on carrying knives in schools (which had been ignored in terms of the kirpan), and there was a stabbing in a NSW school, leading to the school ban on knives being given priority over the religious exemption in general knife laws.
I don't believe there is a similar religious provision in gun laws, and nor do I think it would be likely that a Christian religion could successfully argue that there is a 'real' requirement for guns.
No, we don't have a knife culture. We have very strict anti-knife laws. This is a circumstance where the specific exemption allowed for religions around knives clashed with the more general knife ban in schools.
In general society, there is a knife ban, but Sikhs are effectively exempt in terms of the kirpan.
In schools, it was less clear. Until recently, the kirpan had been allowed, but one was used in a stabbing, leading to schools banning them. This case was to establish whether the existing religious exemption rule, or the existing school ban took precedence.
The religious exemption won out. I'm not a fan of a general exemption, I think it would have made more sense to work with Sikh leaders to find out what could be done in a school setting to satisfy safety rules and the religious requirements. Sometimes that isn't possible, but in this specific case I think it would have been simple, based on my admittedly limited knowledge.
There had been suggestions from Sikh communities on various means of securing kirpans, or similar, so as to render them impotent as a weapon.
Treks
Well-Known Member
Anyone who wants more information on the Sikh side of things, here's a summary of the duties of the Khalsa Sikhs (the amritdhari, initiated Sikhs) from the SGPC, which is the primary governing body of mainstream Sikhi: Duties of the Khalsa – Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee
If you want to go deeper, here's the full Sikh Code of Conduct upon which that summary of duties is based: Sikh Rehat Maryada in English – Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee
If you want to go deeper, here's the full Sikh Code of Conduct upon which that summary of duties is based: Sikh Rehat Maryada in English – Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee
