Sick of political extremism.

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm finding myself increasingly disillusioned by radical political ideologies. I used to call myself an anarcho-communist, but I find that far-leftism is pretty much a pipe dream, like far-rightism is. I tire of utopianism, although I would say I'm an idealist, which I don't view as the same. I think the political philosophy I fit the most now is classical liberalism and I would be a moderate. Truthfully, I don't hate America and the West. America has its problems but they can be fixed. I would say that I'm a patriot and believe in the dream of America, even though we're obviously not completely there yet. I don't see large-scale communism as feasible since communism must be completely voluntary for it to work. Marxism is pretty much a complete failure and I'm increasingly finding modern Marxists to be laughable and a sort of parody. I giggle when reading their rants now, especially since they are often middle-class young whites who live in the West, taking advantage of the privileges of the West and have the freedoms of the West. As for capitalism, it's laissez faire capitalism that's unworkable or at least undesirable, but capitalism reined in with a robust welfare state with government checks on excesses seems to work quite well, leading to the greatest quality of life and happiness.

(I wouldn't say I'm a libertarian in the American sense because I find their worship of capitalism to be off-putting and stupid, by the way.)

 

[Regolith Based Lifeforms]

More singling out of a certain group to blame your problems on and to breed more hate and divisiveness?
You show up, I take a look.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Don't feed the troll, please. Just report and/or ignore.

 

[Regolith Based Lifeforms]

The communist diversion over here was rather interesting seeing as how i brought up the Russians on that "lay down for islam" thread just minutes ago.

 

[idav]

I do agree most every system of government has flaws. However it seems like the ideal is the only thing we can go by, because similar to what you say about how everyone has to agree with communism, most certainly everyone has to agree to not always fight with one another. Perhaps it really should be based on circumstances. For example times of war may not be a good time to be a liberal, in which case people may cling to values more vehemently. There is a time for socialism, capatalism and there are times to let them go.

 

[Regolith Based Lifeforms]

I will never lay down for what isn't normal and acceptable until it becomes normal and acceptable. I will never give in, never give up. I fight for all i love and cherish and that's a lot to love and cherish.

 

[Regolith Based Lifeforms]

I do agree most every system of government has flaws. However it seems like the ideal is the only thing we can go by, because similar to what you say about how everyone has to agree with communism, most certainly everyone has to agree to not always fight with one another. Perhaps it really should be based on circumstances. For example times of war may not be a good time to be a liberal, in which case people may cling to values more vehemently. There is a time for socialism, capatalism and there are times to let them go.

And what's supposed to happen when we "let them go"?

 

[idav]

And what's supposed to happen when we "let them go"?

Capitalism for example only works until it reached its purpose which is to make people wealthy when the reality is not everyone can be wealthy. With that it can only go so far, like playing the game monopoly, how long will people keep playing by borrowing and only giving one person fake money. My quote to the OP was saying that systems are good for certain times.

 

[Regolith Based Lifeforms]

Capitalism for example only works until it reached its purpose which is to make people wealthy when the reality is not everyone can be wealthy. With that it can only go so far, like playing the game monopoly, how long will people keep playing by borrowing and only giving one person fake money. My quote to the OP was saying that systems are good for certain times.

OK, i get that and thank you for your response. I will delete my last post in all fairness. Reason for deleting:
"i was wrong" and it's done and gone.
Now what do we do after capitalism has run it's course without starting a world war or falling into depravity? Is this horror of the human condition just unavoidable with radical change like the end of major paradigms like communism or capitalism? It Sure hasn't been very pretty in the past.
Yikes!

 

[idav]

Now what do we do after capitalism has run it's course without starting a world war or falling into depravity? Is this horror of the human condition just unavoidable with radical change like the end of major paradigms like communism or capitalism? It Sure hasn't been very pretty in the past.
Yikes!

It eventually falls/fails. Weird thing is, US somehow avoids it by lending more money. Looking at history US had several fail systems before they got it be that it just crashes every now and again, I think that maybe similar to some sort of reset, "alright time to tally winners and losers" or something like that.

 

[Regolith Based Lifeforms]

It eventually falls/fails. Weird thing is, US somehow avoids it by lending more money. Looking at history US had several fail systems before they got it be that it just crashes every now and again, I think that maybe similar to some sort of reset, "alright time to tally winners and losers" or something like that.

Interesting and very true. Everyone knows our currency and monetary system is a sham and analysts keep saying we will hit a critical mass where even our periodic small crashes will give way to something more extreme and yet, month by month, year by rear it just keeps going.
Right now, even with all our troubles the price of silver bullion for instance, leisurely hangs around $17.60 per troy oz like nothing's all that big a deal. Very weird indeed.
better check before i post... $17.84 right now, just like good times

 

[Sutekh]

I'm finding myself increasingly disillusioned by radical political ideologies. I used to call myself an anarcho-communist, but I find that far-leftism is pretty much a pipe dream, like far-rightism is.

Unfortunately in my own opinions I reflect ideologies to be a persons viewpoint within, ideologies in my opinion cannot solve real world problems that many of us currently have today. It is interesting when you mention that far leftism and far rightism are both pipe dreams henceforth I agree. It is interesting however that researching many groups of the far right and the attraction to those groups are a waist of time within their pipe dreams. I find it interesting of how much a person can waist away his life by being part of a political extremist organization and hoping that the organization itself can restore things the way things used to be in the U.S I am still surprised that many of these far right organizations have never died off so sudden.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I'm finding myself increasingly disillusioned by radical political ideologies.

Come to terms with your current situation, personal or political. World will go on its own way. We say "akela chana bhad nahin phod sakta" (one seed of gram cannot explode an oven). Change happens at its appointed time when the conditions are ripe for it. You may term it as 'will of the God'.

 

[Revoltingest]

....I wouldn't say I'm a libertarian in the American sense......

Yet.
We smell opportunity, so we're watching you.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

List of current people's wars:
-Naxalites (India)
-Philippines
-Peru

They're mostly whites in the west...? sounds like selection bias to me.

Those aren't the Marxists who you tend to come across online and in the West. I wouldn't expect to be talking to them since they tend to be designated as terrorist groups and are too busy blowing things up, killing people and drug smuggling.

No, the commies that make me laugh are ones like this:

"For all his faults, though, Myerson really is the perfect 21st century chickenhawk communist. Oh, you live in Manhattan, make close to six figures, and went to a middling NY liberal arts college where the cost of a single credit hour exceeds the GDP per capita of a whole host of African countries? Tell me more about how you’re down with The Struggle™. Nothing says certified prole like black-and-white candids, three-piece suits, and finely manicured beards, amirite?"
No, Comrade, You Didn't Discover The Secret To Making Communism Work

(I don't really like that site, but they had a point there.)

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

@Sartre

Are you a Maoist? You recently said you wouldn't support destroying the culture of America and the West, but if you're a Maoist, you would have to support "cultural revolution". How does that add up?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Maoists recognize the nature of art and culture is a force to transform society rather than reflect it. The cultural revolution is not about entirely transforming a culture, but eliminating the bourgeois elements which persist in socialist society to make sure the society does not revert to the capitalist path such as in the Krushev era and post-mao China.

The definition given by the MLM ama on reddit is
"Cultural Revolution- The recognition that the bourgeois ideological superstructure lingers on after a successful socialist revolution, and that this ideological superstructure must be attacked. This leads to the recognition that class struggle continues under socialism, and even intensifies, as the working-class fights for ideological supremacy and to construct its own proletarian superstructure to supplant the bourgeois superstructure."
That's the textbook definition from MLMs. Ultimately every revisionist Chinese leader had some sort of cultural revolution which was almost entirely different than the one who proceeded it.

Socialism will transform elements of culture into being more cooperative than competitive, but this will be a result relating to the changing of material conditions and not really a government transition.

The culture won't be destroyed by any means, but it is due to go under metamorphosis in some ways, like all cultures do when material realities switch.

I don't know if I'm MLM or not I still have a lot to read.

I know what cultural revolution is and what the Maoists did in China. They ransacked and destroyed many cultural and historical sites, including desecrating tombs and cemeteries by digging up corpses and hanging them naked. They destroyed libraries and books. They destroyed temples, churches, mosques and monasteries. They destroyed artifacts and ruined art. Students massacred their teachers. They even drove people to suicide. Etc. The lunatics of the Red Guard acted no different from ISIS today (some Maoist groups also praise Islamic terrorism, as well), or the Nazis in their cultural destruction (Stalinists did much the same to Russia's cultural treasures). I know their reasoning, too, but that doesn't make their great crimes against the heritage of humanity any less utterly revolting. It was the implosion of the mind into total fanaticism. They committed cultural genocide (that's exactly what Maoist "cultural revolution" is), or at least tried their damnedest at it!

Now how does that square with your saying that "the culture won't be destroyed by any means"? Yes, it will under Maoism. That's a crucial part of the ideology. What more do you need to read? Is Wiki's article about it not enough to make your stomach churn?

Cultural Revolution - Wikipedia

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What some think happened under the period which is historically deemed the Cultural Revolution doesn't match up entirely with the theories on it.

"What some think happened with the Holocaust doesn't match up entirely with the theories on it." Maybe the Nazis just wanted to deport all the Jews and other groups, but things just got a tad out of hand for them. See how that works? When you unleash the monsters within, you're not going to be able to restrain them until the lunacy has exhausted itself. It doesn't matter what they originally intended. They kindled the fires of fanaticism and things took their natural course. It's dangerous to play with fire.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If you want to cite a maoist saying so, this might have merit. That's not the theory or what modern MLM's advocate for.

I would be surprised if you could explain any of the pillars of Mao thought or modern MLM.

Many modern Marxists are apologists just like many modern neo-Nazis and neo-Fascists are apologists for the atrocities the originators of their ideologies committed. They usually deny that something happened, contrary to evidence, or make up excuses like "well, that's not what was originally planned", as if that makes it better (is total incompetence supposed to be an acceptable excuse, anyway?). They know that it's socially unacceptable to, first, admit that they did do those things and, second, that the ideologies themselves lead to such actions. That's not good PR. That's why things like Holocaust denial and denial of the Holodomor were invented. It takes real balls to own up to those things, but you're not going win over many people following that method. So I don't care too much about what the apologists have to say. It's the real world actions that count, as well being able to logical trace a path from ideology to action. You yourself mentioned groups that are terrorists as being representatives of the "people's war". Shining Path? Really?!

I kind of miss @Laika because at least he admits what a totalitarian nightmare Marxist-Leninism tends to be (Stalinism, Maoism, the Khmer Rogue, etc.) and that he basically has a sexual fetish for power, which attracts him to such things. At least that's honest.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well if you were making the argument that identified Nazi's wanted to recreate the Holocaust, you would be wrong. If you are saying that Nazi theories on emigration lead to genocide, you would be correct.

However, this seems much more like well poisoning than any legitimate criticism.
Unless you want to explain why things like the theory of New Democracy, understanding contradiction, the mass line, and the democratic removal of bourgeois elements from society necessarily entail genocide, you don't have an argument.

The cultural revolution is unilaterally considered a failure among communists. It did not prevent revisionism and lead to other negative affects as well as being appropriated by red imperialists.

If you're trying to make Maoism "democratic", you're basically inventing a new political theory. Why not just give up on Maoism and Marxist-Leninism as a failure in the first place? Brand recognition? Hero worship? Why hang onto it when it didn't even work in the societies it was designed for?