Should Religious leaders be involved in any form of public school employment

[The Voice of Reason]

"Should Religious leaders be involved in any form of public school employment?"


Absolutely. There are toilets in every public school that they could focus their attention on.

... and not a moment too soon!

 

[Draka]

Please show examples of Atheists being ordained.

We have some on this very forum. would you like to start a thread and ask? Or do you want me to?

Also please keep in mind that one does not need to be ordained to be a Marriage Officiant. Seperate licensing. Nor is one required to be clergy to be a Marriage Officiant.

Laws vary state to state. One can be an Officiant if they are a JP and not be clergy, but in some places if you are not a JP or clergy you cannot officiate a wedding. Since the main reason I got ordained was to be able to do weddings this was something I looked up. I found that since laws vary state to state, YET they all accept ordained clergy as officiants, then the best way to make sure I could officiate no matter where I was was to get ordained.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Please show examples of Atheists being ordained.

Me: I'm a Discordian Pope, just like you. So is everyone else.

Or, if you prefer, many atheists have been ordained through the Universal Life Church. You can probably find quite a few atheists heading up UU congregations as well.

 

[Draka]

See, here's the thing. You can't really discriminate soley on the basis of "religious leader" because one would have to have some kind of proof of that. Someone who may be a "religious leader" to some may not be to others. Some households consider the father to be the automatic "religious leader" of the family. Or how about an unordained High Priestess of a coven? How do you determine who is and is not a "religious leader" unless you use a legal criteria of ordainment? And if you use ordainment, then are discriminating against such a wide variety of people. People that may have nothing else in common except for that peice of paper. Christians, Wiccans, Druids, Native American Shamans, Pantheists, Panentheists, and yes, even atheists can all be ordained. They can all have different reasons for seeking ordainment as well. So how can one possibly try to lump them all together and make them all fit into a tiny box and THEN try to deny them something based on your definition of what that box means? You can't. It simply doesn't hold up.

 

[AxisMundi]

We have some on this very forum. would you like to start a thread and ask? Or do you want me to?

You made the assetion, please provide evidence.

 

[Draka]

You made the assetion, please provide evidence.

If said evidence is presented, and you see atheists get ordained too, will you admit you are painting with too broad a brush? will you admit that people who get ordained vary so greatly that you cannot lump them under all the same description and hold them to the same ideals? Will you admit you are wrong?

 

[AxisMundi]

If said evidence is presented, and you see atheists get ordained too, will you admit you are painting with too broad a brush? will you admit that people who get ordained vary so greatly that you cannot lump them under all the same description and hold them to the same ideals? Will you admit you are wrong?

You are mistaken, young lady.

I am addressing a class of professionals, not individuals.

Added:

And faced with concrete evidence, I am certainly enough of a gentleman to stand corrected.

 

[Draka]

You are mistaken, young lady.

I am addressing a class of professionals, not individuals.

Added:

And faced with concrete evidence, I am certainly enough of a gentleman to stand corrected.

But what you seem to fail to acknowledge is that just because a person is ordained doesn't mean they are a "professional". It doesn't mean that being clergy is a job for them. It doesn't mean they have a congregation. It doesn't even mean they "preach" anything to anyone. In fact, probably the only main thing all members of clergy have in common is they are legally able to perform marriage ceremonies. Performing a marriage ceremony doesn't require someone be excessively religous either. AND there are plenty of people who are not ordained that are far more "religious" and proselytize than a lot of clergy.

If it is proven to you that atheists get ordained, more than stand corrected on whether or not they get ordained, would you admit that you are falsely stereotyping ordained clergy? That trying to fit us all in one box with a specific label and definition is a prime example of faulty reasoning? AND that prohibiting us all from a career which you personally feel a few are untrustworthy to perform is out and out discrimination based on a faulty stereotype?

 

[Marathon runner]

Allowing religious leaders to be employed in public schools is bias and stereotyping and prejudice and just plain old wrong wrong wrong .

 

[Draka]

Allowing religious leaders to be employed in public schools is bias and stereotyping and prejudice and just plain old wrong wrong wrong .

I think you forgot part of a word. It should be: "DISallowing".

The correct statement would be:

"Disallowing religious leaders to be employed in public schools is bias and stereotyping and prejudice and just plain old wrong wrong wrong"

There we go. All edited for correctness and truth. You're welcome.

 

[AxisMundi]

But what you seem to fail to acknowledge is that just because a person is ordained doesn't mean they are a "professional". It doesn't mean that being clergy is a job for them. It doesn't mean they have a congregation. It doesn't even mean they "preach" anything to anyone. In fact, probably the only main thing all members of clergy have in common is they are legally able to perform marriage ceremonies. Performing a marriage ceremony doesn't require someone be excessively religous either. AND there are plenty of people who are not ordained that are far more "religious" and proselytize than a lot of clergy.

If it is proven to you that atheists get ordained, more than stand corrected on whether or not they get ordained, would you admit that you are falsely stereotyping ordained clergy? That trying to fit us all in one box with a specific label and definition is a prime example of faulty reasoning? AND that prohibiting us all from a career which you personally feel a few are untrustworthy to perform is out and out discrimination based on a faulty stereotype?

Again, I am not sterotyping "clergy".

Ordained clergy are professionals, sorry if you cannot understand that.

It is no different than having a degree in any other profession.

I do not support the g'ment funding/paying for clergy in any capactiy, be they instructors or, for example, military clergy.

 

[Draka]

Again, I am not sterotyping "clergy".

Ordained clergy are professionals, sorry if you cannot understand that.

It is no different than having a degree in any other profession.

I do not support the g'ment funding/paying for clergy in any capactiy, be they instructors or, for example, military clergy.

You are wrong. Sorry if you cannot understand that.

 

[AxisMundi]

You are wrong. Sorry if you cannot understand that.

Still a free coutnry, despite the best efforts of theocrats.

Everyone is allowed an opinion.

 

[Marathon runner]

I think you forgot part of a word. It should be: "DISallowing".

The correct statement would be:

"Disallowing religious leaders to be employed in public schools is bias and stereotyping and prejudice and just plain old wrong wrong wrong"

There we go. All edited for correctness and truth. You're welcome.

you know what I said , and besides maybe only a poll can appropriate the truth and reality .But what most voters fail to notice is how disappointed they always are, it's simply because they have a thinking pattern which looks something like this ,

'if the pope wanted to be a bankrobber for extra money he shouldn't be condemned or frowned down upon as long as he doesn't let either conflict with his interests and it won't influence the people who look to him for council ....I repeat you know what I said .

 

[Draka]

HOW does "bank robber" have anything to do with "teacher"? One is a criminal who perpetrates a crime, the other is a valid and worthwhile career worthy of respect.

 

[Marathon runner]

HOW does "bank robber" have anything to do with "teacher"? One is a criminal who perpetrates a crime, the other is a valid and worthwhile career worthy of respect.

How annoyingly typical for you to say such horn blowing thing ...teaching is not worthy of respect . Teachers follow standards all set out for them (public grade schools)they are lazy incompetent and incredibly irresponsible, infact I might agree with your wording but not necessarily in the order you wrote it .

 

[Draka]

How annoyingly typical for you to say such horn blowing thing ...teaching is not worthy of respect . Teachers follow standards all set out for them (public grade schools)they are lazy incompetent and incredibly irresponsible, infact I might agree with your wording but not necessarily in the order you wrote it .

Wow. You really must have been mistreated or abused by a bad teacher somewhere along the way. I've never heard of teachers as you describe. Some of my best friends I've known since childhood are either teachers now or are currently going to school to be teachers. I can gaurantee that I don't know one of them that is like how you describe. Wow. Really. Talk about an awful impression to have of such a large group of people who, for the drastically most part, are respectful, nice, giving, people. In all my years of schooling, I think I can count maybe two teachers I actually thought were "mean". I think you have issues you need to deal with.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Allowing religious leaders to be employed in public schools is bias and stereotyping and prejudice and just plain old wrong wrong wrong .

Reading this, I'd say that it seems you don't know what the words "bias", "stereotyping", or "prejudice" mean.

Again, I am not sterotyping "clergy".

Ordained clergy are professionals, sorry if you cannot understand that.

It is no different than having a degree in any other profession.

Having a degree in another profession doesn't preclude you from becoming a teacher. The important thing is that you hold normal teaching qualifications.

For instance, one of my teachers was a professional engineer. He decided that his heart was more in teaching than engineering and switched careers... and despite being an engineer, he was a really good teacher.

I've also had teachers who were also professional actors and musicians. None of this got in the way of their ability to teach.

Holding qualifications in some other area doesn't stop someone from being a qualified teacher.

How annoyingly typical for you to say such horn blowing thing ...teaching is not worthy of respect . Teachers follow standards all set out for them (public grade schools)they are lazy incompetent and incredibly irresponsible, infact I might agree with your wording but not necessarily in the order you wrote it .

What, did a teacher kick your dog when you were a kid or something? Sheesh.

 

[Marathon runner]

all teachers are the equivalent of their worst student to both children and their parents should we get onto the topic of staff room jokes and conversations ??? you people and your ignorant and naive smokescreens is amazing .

 

[Draka]

Well, I think it's pretty evident from Marathon runner's inane tirades that it is useless to even try having any sort of debate with him. He's not really debating, and he can't debate. He's obviously far too biased from some strange personal experiences to think rationally on this subject.

I simply don't see the need to even attempt to converse with you anymore Marathon runner. I do hope you get help with your issues and your anger.