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Should Nidal Hasan have been scheduled for deployment to the Middle East?

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
The US Army offers education benefits in exchange for active duty military service. From what I can piece together, Hasan received medical training and a degree from the Uniformed Services University. In other words, he agreed to obtain a medical degree and become a doctor in exchange for a certain number of years of active duty service. This requirement is 7 years of active duty service after internship and residency.

The facts below are from a website that seemed pretty factual:

Pros and Cons of military service to pay for medical / professional school- HPSP (the health professional scholarship program)


USUHS
I. What is USUHS?
- Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences is a medical school that was created by congress for the purpose of educating miltary personal to become physicians in the Army, Navy (supports Marines), Air Force, and Public Health Agency. USUHS is located just outside of Washing to n D.C., next to the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda MD.
II. Payback
- 7 year commitment, NOT INCLUDING internship + residency.
All in all: 4-years at USUHS + 1-year internship + 3-year (minimum) residency + 7-years payback = 15+ years in the military.
- USUHS = military career.
III. Benefits
- Rank of 0-1 with all entitlements while in med school. ~45,000$ per year, ~1500 of which is tax free. There is no rank progression while in school, but you are automatically promoted 0-3 upon graduation. For more info on pay as a military doc go to “HPSP FAQ” sticky
- The school has 0$ tuition, and most med school related expenses are covered…Lab fees, travel, books etc…
IV. Requirements as a student
- You are in uniform from day 1, no more civilian life.
- Strict rules of conduct, behavior, and physical fitness standards.
- School is all year around, no extended summer break. You start officer training over the summer before your first year of medical school.
V. Admission Criteria
(stats taken from US News and World Report)
- Avg GPA = 3.53
- Avg MCAT = 9.4 O composite
- Acceptance rate 15.5%
- Must pass physical standards exam
- Must pass National security inquiry
- 50% of all acceptances are people with prior/current military experience

Hasan is an American citizen who was 22 years old when the first Gulf War took place. He joined the military in June 1997 at age 26 or 27 as a First Lt with a degree as a biochemist. He enrolled in the medical program at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences School of Medicine and graduated from that program in 2004.

Picture begins to emerge of Fort Hood suspect - CNN.com

Though he was receiving full military officer pay and benefits for the past 12 years, he has never deployed. Extraordinary good luck for an Army officer. Army personnel have probably the most rigorous deployment schedule of all the US armed forces. All three of my active duty military kids have already deployed to either Iraq or Afghanistan. They didn't much care for it, but it certainly wasn't unexpected.

He was a grown man during the first Gulf War, and joined the military voluntarily after that war, and voluntarily remained in the medical corps programs during and after September 11, while not paying one cent of his own toward his medical career costs. He entered into a contract with the US military for a set amount of service in exchange for education benefits. Surely he was aware of Middle East tensions and war possibilities, and realized that part of Army service, ESPECIALLY AS A DOCTOR, will almost CERTAINLY eventually involved deployment to a war zone!

My question is this - why should he have considered himself to be exempt from combat zones???

Seems to me that he was perfectly happy when he was GETTING benefits FROM the United States military - but when it came to actual active duty service in a war zone (hello - there's a real life reason for all those big boy toys, uniforms, weapons of mass destruction, and combat fatigues you put on every day), he wasn't up for all that.

Personally, as a former military brat, military wife, and the mother of three active duty military soldiers and airmen, his actions absolutely sicken me.

Even if he HADN'T killed 13 people and wounded 30 more, his attempts to avoid deployment are pathetic and indicative of his cowardice and true motives.

The horrible end to his inglorious military career is a tragedy for the Fort Hood military community and the United States, and his actions are despicable.

If you don't want to deploy to a war zone, I've got some advice for you - don't join the military in exchange for education benefits.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
It's hard to tell at this point -- with so little reliable information to go on -- what Hasan's motives were. For several hours, the Army didn't even seem to know they had captured him alive, let alone why he did it.
 

Smoke

Done here.
If you don't want to deploy to a war zone, I've got some advice for you - don't join the military in exchange for education benefits.
That's excellent advice. However -- forgetting about Nidal Hasan for a moment -- it's not advice teenagers are likely to get from recruiters.

Top Military Recruitment Lies | World | AlterNet

YouTube - Military Recruitment Abuses Uncovered

Sgt. Abe the Honest Recruiter explains the Enlistment/Reenlistment Document Armed Forces of the United States: a counter-recruiting comic by Quaker House
 

geofra

Slow, but I get there.
My question is this - why should he have considered himself to be exempt from combat zones???

I believe the question is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what Maj. Hasan thought. He belongs to the military. He goes where they say he goes, no questions asked.
 

Zephyr

Moved on
what war machine? , oh you mean the people he murdered?

No. The man kills a bunch of fellow soldiers and the OP's biggest gripe seems to be that he ripped off the military for his education.

Since you mention it though, better soldiers than innocents.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
No. The man kills a bunch of fellow soldiers and the OP's biggest gripe seems to be that he ripped off the military for his education.

Since you mention it though, better soldiers than innocents.
I see. So you are upset by the very people who ensure you have the freedom to pizz all over them? That's rich.
 

kai

ragamuffin
No. The man kills a bunch of fellow soldiers and the OP's biggest gripe seems to be that he ripped off the military for his education.

Since you mention it though, better soldiers than innocents.

oh i am sorry Zephyr, i forgot your position of wanting all soldiers dead.
 

Zephyr

Moved on
Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather nobody had died, and it is a tragedy. However if somebody is going to be killed, better a professional killer than a civilian. Most importantly though, the real victim here was not the US military and focusing on how much Hasan cost the army to train distracts from the real tragedy that the families of the soldiers are going through.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather nobody had died, and it is a tragedy. However if somebody is going to be killed, better a professional killer than a civilian. Most importantly though, the real victim here was not the US military and focusing on how much Hasan cost the army to train distracts from the real tragedy that the families of the soldiers are going through.
The real tragedy here is what religious thought does to some people and how it can be used to justify insane acts.
 

astarath

Well-Known Member
The real tragedy here is what religious thought does to some people and how it can be used to justify insane acts.

bang on! I weep for the families who lost loved ones in this. A man who could not draw the line between fighting those who would pervert his faith to attack people and is so confused he snaps and kills people himself!!! They had a freaking party in Jerusalem honoring this act? I just cant see the love that is supposed to be there.
 

Zephyr

Moved on
The real tragedy here is what religious thought does to some people and how it can be used to justify insane acts.

I can dig it.

E: Whether or not that was Hasan's motivation (and not general nutbaggery). It's true either way :shrug:
 
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Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.

He wasn't a teenager when he joined the military. And he didn't enter into his agreement for service in exchange for a medical degree till he was 27 years old - at least. My OP was concerning Hasan.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Most importantly though, the real victim here was not the US military and focusing on how much Hasan cost the army to train distracts from the real tragedy that the families of the soldiers are going through.

Oh, I'm sorry that my OP didn't make my full position on this clear.

My grandfather served in WW2 in the Army Air Corps. My favorite uncle spent nearly a year in a German POW camp in WW2. My father (Air Force) flew literally thousands of reconnaissance missions during Vietnam, leaving a wife and child (me) alone for 9 months out of the year for the duration of that conflict. My brother, a Marine, served in Beirut during the Lebanese war.

My youngest daughter is a Staff Sgt in the Air Force and recently returned from a tour of Iraq. My oldest son is a Corporal in the Army and recently returned from 18 months of combat in Iraq. My oldest daughter's husband is a Staff Sgt in the Air Force and just a few weeks ago returned from a tour of duty in Afghanistan.

My childrens' father is a Colonel in the Army serving in Afghanistan as we speak.

I lived on Fort Hood for three years and have been in the building that was the scene of the attack and know that area like the palm of my hand.

I have great empathy for the victims and their families. My OP wasn't about that topic though - it was a question about one particular aspect of this tragedy - not meant to emcompass the entire scope of this terrorist attack on US soldiers - by a US FIELD OFFICER.
 
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YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
I have great empathy for the victims and their families. My OP wasn't about that topic though - it was a question about one particular aspect of this tragedy - not meant to emcompass the entire scope of this terrorist attack on US soldiers - by a US FIELD OFFICER.
The word for this is Taqiyya.
 

methylatedghosts

Can't brain. Has dumb.
I have great empathy for the victims and their families. My OP wasn't about that topic though - it was a question about one particular aspect of this tragedy - not meant to emcompass the entire scope of this terrorist attack on US soldiers - by a US FIELD OFFICER.

Hang on a second - this was a terrorist attack?

I thought he just lost a nut and went crazy.
 

Smoke

Done here.
My OP was concerning Hasan.
But the sentence to which I responded was more general, and I made it clear that I was not referring to his case.

In his case, I think the possibility that he didn't want to be deployed to a war zone is a relatively trivial thing to grouse about.
 
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