Should cats be allowed to roam "at will"?

[TagliatelliMonster]

This point has always baffled me. It strongly implies that since there's a risk of death to humans, it's pointless to try to minimise that risk for our pets. Pets don't have to wander unattended. It's always the owner's choice whether or not to take the risk and I would argue that the risk isn't worth it.

I find the opposite to be baffling.
If this isn't a good enough reason for humans to stay indoors, why would it be for cats?

I would argue that, from the cat's perspective, it is worth the risk.
Not from my selfish perspective, true. Just like I too would prefer to shield my child from the outside world. But locking him up in his room instead of letting him play outside with his friends, doesn't seem to be in his best interest from his perspective.

Yes, most dogs pose a greater danger to humans than cats do. No argument here. That's one of the reasons I get infuriated by the number of dog walkers who let their dogs run rampant in the local park. It's also one reason why I support laws that require dogs to be kept on a lead in public.

Just 2 weeks ago, a pitbull on a leash grabbed a passerby's leg not far from where I live at the local park, requiring him to be hospitalized. Still not sure if he'll get a full recovery.

Bringing up the size of the dog does raise an interesting point though since there are dog breeds that pose no more danger to humans than cats do. I take it you'd be fine with those in your garden?

No. Dogs and cats aren't the same kind of animal.
For starters, dogs crap where they stand, while a cat will usually find a remote corner somewhere and burry it. Or at least try.

Secondly, the kind of dog you talk about are mostly specific breeds, which have little hope of surviving in the wild without owner supervision.

In general, felines and canines are very different animals and it would be a mistake to treat them the same.

Cats roaming free increases the odds of it happening though, doesn't it? It's also pretty disgusting to have to clean up.
Would you be okay with dogs pooing in your garden?

As said above... cats are much cleaner in their "toilet habbits" then dogs.
A dog will crap in the middle of the garden and leave it there without caring.
A cat will not.

At some point, we had 4 cats back in the day. All of which did their business outdoors. Never did I see any crap anywhere. My neighbour has a dog. Every other week I need to remind him to clean up after said dog, because of the stench of all the crap that's just laying there (don't ask - my neighbour is not a nice, or clean, person.. the point however, is about how dogs will do it "wherever" while cats will usually go out of their way not to...)

Again, apply this logic to literally any other pet. If you aren't happy with it in your garden, just spray it.

Why would we apply any logic to "any other pet". Not all animal species are the same.
What goes for one, does not necessarily go for another.

For example, a cat would always run away from the hose. A dog might attack instead. Or consider it playing.

What areas are you thinking of where free-roaming cats aren't an issue?

Country side, for starters.
As for villages and village centers, I guess it would depend on the village.

Frankly, my stance is that if you think it's cruel to keep cats indoors then fair enough. Don't have cats.

There is no reason why cats couldn't roam free on the country side. Surely you can agree to at least that?

I think my core point in all of this still stands though. Even if you feel the freedom offered by letting your cats roam free outweighs the danger, other people are going to have to deal with any damage, mess and disease your pet causes.

What damage, mess and desease?

Again, dogs - even if they are always on a leash - cause LOADS more damage and mess then cats. Even when always kept on a leash. Even if it only roams free in the garden.

Like the dog of my neighbour. It craps where it sits, causing a stench. It barks hours into the night. It barks when my kid plays in the garden, scaring him.

This 1 dog causes quite some annoyances. There's also 10-ish cats in the neighbourhood. They show up in my garden at times. They run around in front of my house.

Not once did any of them cause any damage, made any kind of mess or made someone or something sick.

There was this one time a cat started spraying which smelled bad. We told the owner. He had him "fixed". Problem solved.

That just isn't fair on other people and cats seem to be the only pet that even makes this a debate.

Really?

I don't remember ever seeing any signs in public informing people on having to clean up after their cat or keep them on a leash or have them cover their mouth so they kind bite.
But every park is littered with such signs concerning dogs.

In short, I think it's very clear that your average not-free-roaming dog causes LOADS more nuisance then any free-roaming cat.

 

[Heyo]

That should be enough to deter cat owners from letting them roam free.

And there lies your thinking error: you assume people living with cats see themselves as "owners". Many don't.

 

[Erebus]

I find the opposite to be baffling.
If this isn't a good enough reason for humans to stay indoors, why would it be for cats?

I would argue that, from the cat's perspective, it is worth the risk.
Not from my selfish perspective, true. Just like I too would prefer to shield my child from the outside world. But locking him up in his room instead of letting him play outside with his friends, doesn't seem to be in his best interest from his perspective.



Just 2 weeks ago, a pitbull on a leash grabbed a passerby's leg not far from where I live at the local park, requiring him to be hospitalized. Still not sure if he'll get a full recovery.



No. Dogs and cats aren't the same kind of animal.
For starters, dogs crap where they stand, while a cat will usually find a remote corner somewhere and burry it. Or at least try.

Secondly, the kind of dog you talk about are mostly specific breeds, which have little hope of surviving in the wild without owner supervision.

In general, felines and canines are very different animals and it would be a mistake to treat them the same.



As said above... cats are much cleaner in their "toilet habbits" then dogs.
A dog will crap in the middle of the garden and leave it there without caring.
A cat will not.

At some point, we had 4 cats back in the day. All of which did their business outdoors. Never did I see any crap anywhere. My neighbour has a dog. Every other week I need to remind him to clean up after said dog, because of the stench of all the crap that's just laying there (don't ask - my neighbour is not a nice, or clean, person.. the point however, is about how dogs will do it "wherever" while cats will usually go out of their way not to...)




Why would we apply any logic to "any other pet". Not all animal species are the same.
What goes for one, does not necessarily go for another.

For example, a cat would always run away from the hose. A dog might attack instead. Or consider it playing.



Country side, for starters.
As for villages and village centers, I guess it would depend on the village.



There is no reason why cats couldn't roam free on the country side. Surely you can agree to at least that?



What damage, mess and desease?

Again, dogs - even if they are always on a leash - cause LOADS more damage and mess then cats. Even when always kept on a leash. Even if it only roams free in the garden.

Like the dog of my neighbour. It craps where it sits, causing a stench. It barks hours into the night. It barks when my kid plays in the garden, scaring him.

This 1 dog causes quite some annoyances. There's also 10-ish cats in the neighbourhood. They show up in my garden at times. They run around in front of my house.

Not once did any of them cause any damage, made any kind of mess or made someone or something sick.

There was this one time a cat started spraying which smelled bad. We told the owner. He had him "fixed". Problem solved.



Really?

I don't remember ever seeing any signs in public informing people on having to clean up after their cat or keep them on a leash or have them cover their mouth so they kind bite.
But every park is littered with such signs concerning dogs.

In short, I think it's very clear that your average not-free-roaming dog causes LOADS more nuisance then any free-roaming cat.

And there lies your thinking error: you assume people living with cats see themselves as "owners". Many don't.

I don't mean any disrespect to either of you but I'm going to bow out of this debate. It's a subject that irritates me and I feel like I've already been more snappish than I would like. I also feel that we're just not going to see eye to eye here no matter what any of us say. My experience on RF is that when that's the case, it's better to just leave than to start rehashing the same points.

So, in the interest of hopefully finding a modicum of compromise: while this is a subject that irritates me, there are behaviours among some dog owners that absolutely infuriate me.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

And there lies your thinking error: you assume people living with cats see themselves as "owners". Many don't.

Exactly.

In fact, my first post in this thread argued for the exact opposite.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I don't mean any disrespect to either of you but I'm going to bow out of this debate. It's a subject that irritates me and I feel like I've already been more snappish than I would like. I also feel that we're just not going to see eye to eye here no matter what any of us say. My experience on RF is that when that's the case, it's better to just leave than to start rehashing the same points.

So, in the interest of hopefully finding a modicum of compromise: while this is a subject that irritates me, there are behaviours among some dog owners that absolutely infuriate me.

It's all cool.

Cats and dogs mostly never see eye to eye.
And the same goes for cat-people and dog-people.

Cat-people tend to get annoyed by dogs.
Dog-people tend to get annoyed by cats.

At least, that's my experience.
This thread is a good reflection of that as well.

 

[Stevicus]

 

[Trailblazer]

Our home had a fence all around the garden.
The cat just climbed up a tree and jumped over it. One of the cats used the roof to leave the garden. To this day, it is still a mystery to everyone how it managed to get up there.

Hmmmmm... Our cats never try to get out because they know that are not supposed to go out. If I have the door open and they are in the vicinity all I have to do is yell and they know.

We have two fenced areas with the Purrfect Fence, one downstairs, one upstairs. The cats never tried to get out even though I have a cat condo next to the fence so they might have been able to jump over it.

The raccoons got in the downstairs fenced area by climbing the trees around it, and once a raccoon even dug under the fence and got in the house through the pet door. The cats were there but nobody got hurt. After that I had to start feeding the raccoons on the large deck and so it is now a rack deck that no people use.

We never let the cats out in the downstairs fenced area anymore because we don't even go downstairs anymore since we have no cats down there anymore, so they have to settle on looking through the window at the yard downstairs. The whole yard is completely grown over now but that is another long sad story, as is the whole condition of our grounds since my husband decided he would do no more yard work and I don't have time.

We have let the cats out into the upstairs fenced area which is smaller but the fence came undone owing to a snowstorm and it needs to be repaired. Also the grass is more than knee high so we have not let any cats out this year. We also have two new cats and I don't know if I want to let them out there. There are so many raccoons and they can easily get into the upstairs fenced area by climbing trees. I take no chances with my cats because I love them more than life itself.

 

[danieldemol]

And you contradict yourself just right here:

So, it is possible to constrain humans to the inside or property.

Yeah sorry, I meant it is not possible to constrain the majority of humans. Even to have prisons/Psych/dementia wards etc you still require a largely free working population to supply them with food/shelter etc. This is not the case with cats who have humans to fetch food and cover other needs

I provided evidence for the fact that humans live longer inside in post #49.

I don't think monks and nuns live inside, and they are only a small subset of humans anyway.

I just value my freedom very much and don't like it to be restrained and I apply the golden rule for other creatures who value their freedom.
So, if you are OK with being constrained to your mothers basement or even prefer it that way, you can't understand my reasoning and, in fact, it wouldn't apply to you. Only if you value freedom, I'd call you a hypocrite if you restrain it for others.

I don't believe in absolute freedom. If you as a human were to kill indigenous people or even to go hunting endangered species you'd probably get locked up. The same if you went around brawling. Why is it any different for cats?

 

[Heyo]

I don't believe in absolute freedom. If you as a human were to kill indigenous people or even to go hunting endangered species you'd probably get locked up. The same if you went around brawling. Why is it any different for cats?

It shouldn't be. I don't get locked up because I could go hunting endangered species. I only get locked up after the fact.
If we agree that cats can be responsible like humans (and many would question that), they should have the the same freedom as humans. If they don't get the freedom, they shouldn't be held responsible. (I.e. the "owner" of the cat would be. If there is no-one identifying as an owner, cats killing birds is just a fact of nature.)
All the cats who lived in my household weren't owned by me. I didn't pay to own them. They were either strays or given to me by people who couldn't provide for them any longer. I live in a rural area and afaik there is no wildlife endangered by cats. In fact, the cats who lived here didn't even catch birds. They did catch mice, though.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I would argue that, from the cat's perspective, it is worth the risk.
Not from my selfish perspective, true. Just like I too would prefer to shield my child from the outside world. But locking him up in his room instead of letting him play outside with his friends, doesn't seem to be in his best interest from his perspective.

If you think that being a responsible pet owner would be intolerable to this cat you've imagined, then maybe you should just not get a cat.