Sexuality is a choice...

[Just_me_Mike]

Unless our mental capacities are SO damaged, by either birthing issues, trauma to the head or similar impairments, I plan to show how sexual preference is always a choice.

I have never met a human being that had a perfect disposition towards anything in particular, as we are not robots, without reason and conscience. While it it most certainly true our brains may favor a certain flavor, and certain color, a certain partner, it is never so absolute that a choice is not made.

History has taught us that Heterosexuals have been the norm through most civilization, so it would be easy to see why there exists an inclination to call Hetero views the "norm".
However, when we look at the prevailing rulers of land, and rulers of thought, we begin to understand why it was the norm. It is difficult to imagine the prevailing heterosexual species was a product mostly from biology and not from social pressure.

Example, it is not natural for a white child to grow up hating a black child, but will indeed feel truly natural if the child is conditioned to hate black people from inception. If that happened enough it would seem normal to hate black people. Of course that is just silly to think that is biological, because we know it is entirely a result of conditioning.

However, what this black and white example does show is we as humans have the capacity to become such a creature to hate black people, or really become just about anything we want if conditioned the right way.

Thus it should be safe to conclude, human beings have dispositions that lean one way or the other on a great many matters, from what foods they like to what sexual partners they prefer. It is not enough though to conclude the disposition is entirely at work in these choices though. Life teaches us often disposition can change, and if it can change so readily, it can't be an independent indicator on matters such as sexual preferences.

No, the reality is we have to make choices based on our dispositions. If at times we find the same sex attractive, it merely means we have the capacity in our minds to carry out that attraction. Usually once carried out, we stamp that in our minds as "this is me", when what it really is, is "this is me for now". Humans have the unique ability to change and choose these types of lifestyles, and in my personal opinion trying to determine if people are born hetero or homo sexual only dilutes and diminishes the abstract and wonderful creatures that we really are.

In conclusion, I wonder greatly if the argument for being born gay or not, has more to do with agendas then really finding out the truth to our sexual natures as human beings.

 

[Storm]

Sexuality is a choice...

No, it isn't.

Unless our mental capacities are SO damaged, by either birthing issues, trauma to the head or similar impairments, I plan to show how sexual preference is always a choice.

Preference is not the same as orientation. I prefer men for long term relationships, but that does nothing to negate my bisexuality.

History has taught us that Heterosexuals have been the norm through most civilization, so it would be easy to see why there exists an inclination to call Hetero views the "norm".

So what?

However, when we look at the prevailing rulers of land, and rulers of thought, we begin to understand why it was the norm. It is difficult to imagine the prevailing heterosexual species was a product mostly from biology and not from social pressure.

So, now queers aren't even the same species?

Example, it is not natural for a white child to grow up hating a black child, but will indeed feel truly natural if the child is conditioned to hate black people from inception. If that happened enough it would seem normal to hate black people. Of course that is just silly to think that is biological, because we know it is entirely a result of conditioning.

Which has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

In conclusion, I wonder greatly if the argument for being born gay or not, has more to do with agendas then really finding out the truth to our sexual natures as human beings.

You think anything you've said even indicates, let alone proves that sexual orientation is a choice?

I didn't choose to be attracted to women, and neither did you. Do we choose to act on that attraction? Of course. That's one of the neat perks of being human. We're not slaves to our biology.

However, for a homosexual, the choice isn't to be attracted to the same sex or not. It's to deny or accept their natural urges. There's no good reason to expect denial, it's cruel and bigoted.

You disappoint me.

:rainbow1:

 

[*Anne*]

Hm, I don't know if you can compare conditioned hate to sexual preference (edit: Storm rightly pointed out that we should probably use the term "orientation".). I see hate as an emotion, a reaction, and it's something that can be reversed.

My sexual orientation, however, seems very much innate. Kinda like my inability to understand a concept in Physics the first five times it's explained to me.

I can train myself to see past my anger and not hate someone, but I highly doubt I can convince myself to find women sexually attractive. I suspect my attraction to men is deeply embedded in me.

 

[Mr Cheese]

You think anything you've said even indicates, let alone proves that sexual orientation is a choice?

I didn't choose to be attracted to women, and neither did you. Do we choose to act on that attraction? Of course. That's one of the neat perks of being human. We're not slaves to our biology.

However, for a homosexual, the choice isn't to be attracted to the same sex or not. It's to deny or accept their natural urges. There's no good reason to expect denial, it's cruel and bigoted.

You disappoint me.

:rainbow1:

being morbidly obese is the norm in parts of Indiana...does this make it a good thing?

as storm poiints out, you haven't proven anything...besides perhaps demonstrating your ignorance and underlying homophobia

this is a great line (can we say fundamentalist christian sexual reorientation camps please?)
Humans have the unique ability to change and choose these types of lifestyles

Its like being homosexual is a life style....

well yes it is, it is a sub culture.... bears, twinks etc
but you know, thats probably due to repression and bigotry

put a gay dude in a v neck sweater, a nice hair cut, complete his woredrobe so that he dresses like a geek...and force him to listen to ted nugent, It won't make him hetero.... he'll still be gay.

:sarcastic if we really follow your logic its like saying being hetero is a life style choice

stop and think before you post

 

[Buttercup]

People were gay long before agendas.

 

[tumbleweed41]

The best that can be said is that orientations, in sexuality and other parts of life, are the result of both nature and nurture, in varying degrees. The only real choice is whether or not to deny those orientations or accept oneself for what you are.
One either does, or does not, have sexual feeling towards members of the same sex. Just as one either does, or does not, have sexual feelings towards members of the opposite sex.
I have never "chosen" to feel desire towards women, I just do. To attempt to "choose" to feel desire towards men would go against my very nature, and would result in a very unsatisfying encounter. Just as a man who has a natural desire for other men, but none for women, would find a heterosexual encounter unsatisfying.

 

[Father Heathen]

What a ridiculous notion. How the hell does one choose their tastes and desires? If you like or dislike certain types of food or music, for example, is that entirely a conscious choice? Of course not.

And even if it were somehow a choice, that would be still entirely irrelevant. As long as all parties involved are consenting adults and nobody's rights are violated, it's fair game.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

You say heterosexuality has always been the norm eh? You better study the ancient Pagans it will end. Their societies most people were bi-sexual. No sexuality isn't a choice, a person cannot choose who they're attracted to, therefore it's not a choice. You can't switch your attraction off like a light switch and just automatically like women now if you're gay.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

No, it isn't.

Preference is not the same as orientation. I prefer men for long term relationships, but that does nothing to negate my bisexuality.

So what?

So, now queers aren't even the same species?

Which has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

You think anything you've said even indicates, let alone proves that sexual orientation is a choice?

I didn't choose to be attracted to women, and neither did you. Do we choose to act on that attraction? Of course. That's one of the neat perks of being human. We're not slaves to our biology.

However, for a homosexual, the choice isn't to be attracted to the same sex or not. It's to deny or accept their natural urges. There's no good reason to expect denial, it's cruel and bigoted.

You disappoint me.

:rainbow1:

Storm I am just as disappointed in you. I took time to think that post out, and instead of trying to understand what I mean by my words, you judge it at first glance, instead of being sure that is what I meant. Your loss...

 

[Just_me_Mike]

:sarcastic if we really follow your logic its like saying being hetero is a life style choice

It is a choice...

 

[Storm]

Storm I am just as disappointed in you. I took time to think that post out, and instead of trying to understand what I mean by my words, you judge it at first glance, instead of being sure that is what I meant. Your loss...

Take more, because you posted nothing worthy of consideration.

 

[Storm]

Also, playing the misunderstood outsider in this context is disgusting.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Hetero lifestyle is a choice? Maybe for you it will end. Homosexuality was never a choice for me. If you think being hetero is a choice, maybe you should re-examine your own sexuality. I never thought of sexuality as something I chose.

 

[Father Heathen]

It is a choice...

So you can actually look at any random person, despite their gender or appearance, and say "gettin' aroused in 3.. 2.. 1.." then snap your fingers and *sproing*, just like that? And then snap your fingers again, immediately killing desire? I kinda doubt it.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

People were gay long before agendas.

Of course, my whole point is that calling our sexuality preference entirely normal or natural is false. Tumbleweed asserts he could never be with a man, and as I pointed out in the OP, his brain is wired more towards the side of sexuality that desires women. However, he could learn to like men. It is a choice he makes to not do that. Which is fine.

The idea that we have to be either gay, straight, or bi, is simply solidifying our real human nature which is not that simple.

The best that can be said is that orientations, in sexuality and other parts of life, are the result of both nature and nurture, in varying degrees. The only real choice is whether or not to deny those orientations or accept oneself for what you are.
One either does, or does not, have sexual feeling towards members of the same sex. Just as one either does, or does not, have sexual feelings towards members of the opposite sex.
I have never "chosen" to feel desire towards women, I just do. To attempt to "choose" to feel desire towards men would go against my very nature, and would result in a very unsatisfying encounter. Just as a man who has a natural desire for other men, but none for women, would find a heterosexual encounter unsatisfying.

You say it would go against your nature, but if you wanted to you could learn to like men, and in doing so, would change the chemistry of your brain to be more open to that experience. It is a choice you make to not do such a thing. that is all I am suggesting.

What a ridiculous notion. How the hell does one choose their tastes and desires? If you like or dislike certain types of food or music, for example, is that entirely a conscious choice? Of course not.

And even if it were somehow a choice, that would be still entirely irrelevant. As long as all parties involved are consenting adults and nobody's rights are violated, it's fair game.

I never said it wouldn't be OK to have gay relations, you are reading way too much into my post. I support freedom of choice for everyone.

You say heterosexuality has always been the norm eh? You better study the ancient Pagans it will end. Their societies most people were bi-sexual. No sexuality isn't a choice, a person cannot choose who they're attracted to, therefore it's not a choice. You can't switch your attraction off like a light switch and just automatically like women now if you're gay.

You need to read my post closer. I said specifically norm in MOST civilizations. Also EVERYONE is missing the point that I don't agree that Norm here equates with nature. I am suggesting the Norm was achieved by social pressure, not biology.

Stop being so quick to assume I am against this stuff, just because I am introducing new information. Anytime new information is presented, people get scared.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

So you can actually look at any random person, despite their gender or appearance, and say "gettin' aroused in 3.. 2.. 1.." then snap your fingers and *sproing*, just like that? And then snap your fingers again, immediately killing desire? I kinda doubt it.

Come on, you are not listening. I said each human mind has disposition to one side or the other, but there is always the capacity to like both, if one wanted to explore that side.

It is not macho to state, "I would never do such a thing, it is wrong to me", that is an emotional appeal which does nothing to negate the fact that our brains and bodies can and will enjoy these encounters if we pursue them, DESPITE, what our emotions tell us at first thought.

 

[Storm]

Of course, my whole point is that calling our sexuality preference entirely normal or natural is false. Tumbleweed asserts he could never be with a man, and as I pointed out in the OP, his brain is wired more towards the side of sexuality that desires women. However, he could learn to like men. It is a choice he makes to not do that. Which is fine.

No, he couldn't. He could choose to live a lie, but that doesn't change his orientation.

Stop being so quick to assume I am against this stuff, just because I am introducing new information. Anytime new information is presented, people get scared.

If you don't want people to get defensive, stop regurgitating anti-queer talking points in defiance of reality and common sense.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

No, he couldn't. He could choose to live a lie, but that doesn't change his orientation.


If you don't want people to get defensive, stop regurgitating anti-queer talking points in defiance of reality and common sense.

Oh my, how ridiculous to assert that you know enough about our brains to suggest a person could not learn to like both sexes, and then call that ability a lie. What evidence do you have to support such a claim Storm?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I don't think a person could learn to like both sexes. I certainly don't like both, and am so turned off by the female anatomy, I'm not even willing to try it. I think if people do like both sexes they must have been born like that

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I don't think a person could learn to like both sexes. I certainly don't like both, and am so turned off by the female anatomy, I'm not even willing to try it. I think if people do like both sexes they must have been born like that

My son says the same thing about meatloaf. I am not interested in what you think. I am merely introducing ideas to consider.

FOR EVERYONE!!!!! I should have put in the OP that I would like to explore some ideas with you all, instead of stating I have proof. Will that change the tone, if it is sincere?

I am still totally interested in exploring the power a human has to change their disposition to include new things and how that is a choice.