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sex and religion

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
It was not obligatory on Tamar to have a child. Nor for Judah. He was the father-in-law. Levirate marriage was obligatory on only a brother-in-law. No matter how you interpret the story, the Talmud makes it clear that it is a sin for a male to spill semen except to have children, to fulfill conjugal duty to please a wife, or if it is medically necessary. You may believe the Talmud is man made, but many people live by it. I believe the New Testament is man made. I admit that nowhere in the Torah does Moses ever condemn the spilling of semen. So if we don't look in the Talmud, this discussion is going nowhere.

Actually it is the husband's close brethren, - not just brother.

And Deu 25:5-10 makes it plain she had to do it, and he was expected to do it or lose face, and inheritance.

Number 5 says the woman of the dead shall not go without unto another man:

And 8 & 9 say if the male relative refuses - he is to be brought before the elders -


9 Then his brother's wife shall draw near to him before the elders, and shall take his shoe from his foot, and spit in his face, and shall answer and say, So it shall be done to the man who will not build up the house of his brother.

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Brian Schuh

Well-Known Member
Now a days, when a man dies childless, his brother has to offer marriage to the widow, but the widow is expected to say no. I asked my rabbi if I have to marry my brother's wife if he dies with no children, the rabbi said it is a simple ceremony and the woman not only has the right to say no, but is expected to say no.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Now a days, when a man dies childless, his brother has to offer marriage to the widow, but the widow is expected to say no. I asked my rabbi if I have to marry my brother's wife if he dies with no children, the rabbi said it is a simple ceremony and the woman not only has the right to say no, but is expected to say no.

Today is so much better than the past, - is it not?

According to Tanakh she originally had no choice.

It is really strange to me though - that they would still practice the Halizah. I mean - have the widow SPIT at you? And you be shamed?

This was interesting - from Jewish Encyclopedia -

"Various reasons have been offered for the ceremony of loosening the shoe. From the incident related in the Book of Ruth (iv. 7, 8), which certainly refers to this ancient custom, it would seem that the loosening of the shoe was a symbol for a transfer of rights, ..."

"Some of the later rabbis (Jehiel of Paris, for instance) say that the removal of the shoe symbolized the entrance into a state of mourning. From the time when the yabam actually refused to marry his brother's widow and thus perpetuate his name in Israel, his brother was considered dead, and the yebamah, by drawing off his shoe, thus declared to him that from that time on he was a mourner ("Perush Seder Ḥaliẓah," 82; comp. Weill, "La Femme Juive," part iv., ch. v., Paris, 1874)."

I have also read the opinion that it represented shame, and loss of status, for the Brother-in-law and his family. The removal of the shoe representing that they hold no more honor then slaves.

There was also an interesting tidbit hidden at the bottom of one of Jewish Encyclopedia's reference pages that suggested - this practice was originally because of primitive Hebrew polyandry (multiple husbands.) It notes that the verse in question states they are two male siblings living together, and one dies with no offspring, Suggesting polyandry. This could give a reason for a refusal to give a brother an heir. If he provides an heir, - "their" estate inheritance gets split between his and his brother's offspring. And the "exposure" of the "foot," law that came into being, - covers several of the ideas given, public shame for letting his brother's name die in Israel, - and transference of rights, etc.

I also noticed that the foot - often represents the penis. A hand was put to the penis for Oaths and Swearings, and Honor. Thus the widow unlatching and removing the covering of the "foot" in public, - probably originally represented the public display - to ridicule, - of the penis he refused to use. Thus great public shame, and showing his lack of honor - exposed.

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MikeP87

New Member
it seem like I will never get married so is it ok to have sex outside of a marriage? and is pornography and masturbation sending me straight to hell???
I'm struggling with this now and can relate to what you said. I'm gay but now am a Baptist and believe Jesus died for my sins. Lately I've been viewing porn and masterbating. Is this sinful? I think I should feel guilty and ashamed of myself, but I don't. Am I going to hell? Even though I'm Baptist, it hasn't changed my sexual orientation. I think that maybe I should go to a Celebrate Recovery meeting for men with sexual addictions. What do you think?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
it seem like I will never get married so is it ok to have sex outside of a marriage? and is pornography and masturbation sending me straight to hell???
I do not understand why Christians are asking people on a forum what they should be doing. Didn't Jesus say what you are supposed to be doing in the Bible? o_O
Oh , never mind... I just looked that up on the web and there is no consensus about what Jesus said or meant...

Basically, people twist the meanings of verses and make the Bible say and mean anything they want it to say and mean... It is all about what people want. People want sex, so they twist the verses to mean that they can have sex and not feel guilty. If the only reason a person would refrain from sex is because they are worried about going to hell, to me that means they would only refrain out of abject fear. I do not think that is a good reason to refrain. I think the reason should be that we want to obedient to God's ordinances.

I do not think very many people care about God's ordinances, they only care what they want for themselves. Just do whatever feels good. It is really sad. :( I see no point being a member of a religion if one cannot follow the ordinances of that religion, but that's just me.

All that said, I do not think you will go to hell for any sexual activities, certainly not for masturbation.
But according to my religion there is no such place as hell. Hell is just distance from God.
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I'm struggling with this now and can relate to what you said. I'm gay but now am a Baptist and believe Jesus died for my sins. Lately I've been viewing porn and masterbating. Is this sinful? I think I should feel guilty and ashamed of myself, but I don't. Am I going to hell? Even though I'm Baptist, it hasn't changed my sexual orientation. I think that maybe I should go to a Celebrate Recovery meeting for men with sexual addictions. What do you think?
I do not think it is that big of a deal. There are much worse things you could be doing. You say think you should feel guilty so that means you have a conscience. That is a good thing, but I would not beat yourself up over this. I don't know many men who can go without some kind of sexual outlet, at least not before they are older.

I do not think anyone goes to hell over any kind of sexual indiscretions, although adultery is a very serious sin. But there is no such place as hell in my religion.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I do not understand why Christians are asking people on a forum what they should be doing. Didn't Jesus say what you are supposed to be doing in the Bible? o_O
The Bible's advice can be a bit draconian:
"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell." -- Matt. 5:29 o_O
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
I'm struggling with this now and can relate to what you said. I'm gay but now am a Baptist and believe Jesus died for my sins. Lately I've been viewing porn and masterbating. Is this sinful? I think I should feel guilty and ashamed of myself, but I don't. Am I going to hell? Even though I'm Baptist, it hasn't changed my sexual orientation. I think that maybe I should go to a Celebrate Recovery meeting for men with sexual addictions. What do you think?

If this were a sexual addiction then your CR meetings would have to be held in a stadium. Lighten up.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
The Bible's advice can be a bit draconian:
"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell." -- Matt. 5:29 o_O
I did not know Jesus was so harsh on this matter.... I knew about Paul though:

Rom 8:1-9
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
 
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