• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Set isn't Satan

is Set, the same as Satan?


  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
In Setian cosmology, gods are understood as Platonic Forms, the essence of things that exist, which carry the characteristics of god. It can be thought of like archetypes, except the Forms are not simply abstract ideas – they truly exist. Set is the Form of individual, independent self-hood, or Isolate Intelligence. You know that deep, seemingly continuous Self that you are almost constantly aware of, that seems able to control your body, that thinks abstractly and day dreams? This is the Form of Set, representing that which is separate from and can go against nature. In popular Egyptian mythology, Set was the “god against the gods”, being a threat to Ma’at and eternally combated (and, of course, eventually defeated) by Horus. This is near identical to the evolving views on Satan over the centuries. It represents separation from God, tries to divide us from God. In Hebrew it was an adversary to test faith in God, and in Christianity it is a literal being trying to eternally separate us from God. Interestingly, one of the oldest meanings of Set is “separator” or “isolator”. Set was so separated from the gods that it is the only deity represented by an animal that does not exist.
I cannot speak to this notion of adversaries, but I think archetypes are likely. Our own physical existence must have a basis, and that seems a likely basis. I refer to Math + fractals + Informational Structural Realism as a potential basis and reason to consider archetypes, though I am not a Setian. To simplify my position: Our seeming physical nature consists of rules and order describing what a physical nature would be like if it did exist. We actually are getting around nonexistence by neither existing nor not existing. I do not know where 'Set' fits into that scheme.

In Christian symbolism, God and goodness tends to be associated with light whereas Satan and evil are associated with the darkness. This is extremely common symbolism found even all the way back in Egyptian religion, like with the solar worship and fear of the sun being stopped by Apep in the underworld. Set was always very clearly associated with darkness, from his original form of an afterlife deity, to his associations with Apep and pure evil.
We borrow from Judaism but have made several changes so that you would really need to ask them what they think. Light is in Christianity, knowledge and goodness and truth. Darkness is ignorance and nonexistence and corruption or so I surmise. There is a huge repudiation of all things Egyptian in Judaism. Moses absolutely loathes that civilization. Maybe he likes Setians, but Egypt he does not like. Egypt is created by the Nile floods, but to Moses floods are always evil and represent something undesireable. As an infant Moses is protected from the Nile and saved out of it. There are hundreds of ways that Moses shows his dislike of Egypt and the Nile that spawns it. If Moses does not like Set he does not appear to mention the fact in a way that I can recognize.
It is also important to note that Satan was not always considered evil. Originally Satan worked for God in order to test the faith of man, which changed only with Christianity. The decline of Set was even greater, as he was once one of the most respected and revered deities in Egypt. For Set, he was consider the sole son of Nut, and was important to the nomadic Egyptians as a god who brought storms. However, with the importation of the Osirian religion, and thus Solar religion, Set was made into a villain and scapegoat, being a murderer, rapist, pederast, and so on. Likewise Satan, who gave humanity knowledge, and acted as an agent of God, was later turned into a representation of all things evil.
That did not change with Christianity but over time yes. I suggest that gnostic notions of Christianity probably recognized archetypes in a way similar to what you have described, however such a phat headed approach did not find a place in the hearts of most of the converts. I see what you are saying about the similarity between Set and Satan; but if Egypt hates Set then its possible Moses likes Set -- if for no other reason than to repudiate Egypt, and if Moses likes him then so does Jesus. That creates a discontinuity between Set and Satan, unless you associate Christianity with the Egyptian religion instead of Judaism -- which occasionally may not be an incorrect (if blurry) choice.

Speaking of the serpent in the garden giving humanity higher cognitive abilities, it is interesting to note that Set was the deity required to combat Apep, the god of mindlessness, chaos, and disorder. Being represented by the northern circumpolar stars, Set was also closely associated with the serpent, thanks not only to Draco but to Alpha Draconis having been the previous pole star.
So that rules him out as Venus, which is what Satan is associated with. The serpent enables Adam and Eve to win against God although they take some damage in the event. They become like gods themselves. This is what I was talking about earlier. Its a repudiation of Egypt where the gods are always better than people.

Anyways, I think I’ll move into the summarization now. Set and Satan are almost identical Forms, even in the evolution of their character and their mythologies. They were both beings associated with darkness, both representing that which went again God or the gods, both associated with the serpent, individual strength, both being slowly demonized and scapegoated by a god of resurrection, a new afterlife, the concept of “sin”, and so on. No, the names do not seem to be related historically, though it is interesting to note that Satan originally meant “adversary” whereas Set closely resembles it as “Separator”. Perhaps most interesting, the modern religions of these two beings stemmed from the same place and time in history. In other words, the idea that there is no relation between Set and Satan is, in a word, fideism.
The similarity is erie and seems to me to show that it is easy for people to forget about progress and move backwards towards barbarism.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Lucifer is not even an aspect of Christianity, and when we pretend he is we realize he was the pre fall Satan. You're literally the first person I've ever knowingly met who rejects a correlation between the Christian god and the symbolism of light. Further, to compare something like Egypt to monotheism, the gods more equate to angles, because there is not the one, all powerful being in these religions. In this sense Set is even more like Satan, as opposed to a more monotheistic version of god. I can't really make sense of the rest of your response, and don't understand what you mean by posting my own material? Everything here is my own material...


First off, Lucifer is an aspect of light in Christian theology. He is actually so much so, that that is his main characteristic, ie he's an angel of beauty

aside from that, you are equating an Egyptian deity to monotheism, not me...
 
Last edited:

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
So that rules him out as Venus, which is what Satan is associated with. The serpent enables Adam and Eve to win against God although they take some damage in the event. They become like gods themselves. This is what I was talking about earlier. Its a repudiation of Egypt where the gods are always better than people.

The similarity is erie and seems to me to show that it is easy for people to forget about progress and move backwards towards barbarism.

This actually was not the case when Set was still a main god, especially in dynastic Egypt. We see this in quotes like this from the pyramid texts:

“Set and Nephthys speak to the gods: N has become like an imperishable star: if he wishes you shall live you shall live, if he wishes you shall die you shall die”. The pharaoh “howls like Set howls” and the gates of heaven open before him. The dead is “like Set when he lifts himself and ascends to the heavens”

With the Set based after life, the dead could not only become a deity themselves, but one separate from and more powerful than the other deities.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
First off, Lucifer is an aspect of light in Christian theology. He is actually so much so, that that is his main characteristic, ie he's an angel of beauty

aside from that, you are equating an Egyptian deity to monotheism, not me...

Lucifer is not even an aspect of actually Christianity, and where he is written in he is the pure, godly, prefall version of Satan. But it's a title, even Christ calls himself the bright bringer of morning, and the King of Babylon was called the "shining one" (where the mistranslation actually stems from, the original word being Helel I believe). I am not equating Egypt with monotheism, I am trying to compare a strictly polytheistic to a strictly monotheistic system. Were you actually an occultist you could not only do this yourself, but would understand the comparison. It's kind of like the difference between G and g gods. Both Satan and Set would be seen as lower case, but they were angels in monotheistic societies.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
This actually was not the case when Set was still a main god, especially in dynastic Egypt. We see this in quotes like this from the pyramid texts:

“Set and Nephthys speak to the gods: N has become like an imperishable star: if he wishes you shall live you shall live, if he wishes you shall die you shall die”. The pharaoh “howls like Set howls” and the gates of heaven open before him. The dead is “like Set when he lifts himself and ascends to the heavens”

With the Set based after life, the dead could not only become a deity themselves, but one separate from and more powerful than the other deities.
I see a lot of emphasis upon an afterlife there. It does not sound like the same thing you describe earlier with archetypes. These people seem to be in denial about death. Am I correct in assessing that they are waiting for an afterlife, or are they talking about a different concept? If so they are already brainwashed by Pharoah or well down the road to it. So...being mental slaves of the Pharoahs I cannot really see what they have to do with the Setian religion. Sorry, not trying to derail.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
You're making obscure entity comparisons and trying to equate them. It isn't working, and it's obvious.

You've gotten so off from the main thread question, that your comparisons aren't even contextual

I'm not off topic at all, and I'm following the conversation. I provided numerous reasons why the entities are related, and you chose to question one point: the darkness vs light. We were discussing that, I showed why your objection was incorrect, and you decided I was off topic.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
I see a lot of emphasis upon an afterlife there. It does not sound like the same thing you describe earlier with archetypes. These people seem to be in denial about death. Am I correct in assessing that they are waiting for an afterlife, or are they talking about a different concept? If so they are already brainwashed by Pharoah or well down the road to it. So...being mental slaves of the Pharoahs I cannot really see what they have to do with the Setian religion. Sorry, not trying to derail.

There's always an afterlife, it just varied in it's interpretation. With old mythology the interpretations and real life correspondences are quite important. For example, the early Egyptians could be deified, but shortly after Osiris comes in they must always remain submissive to the gods, keep the same hierarchies, basically have an identical world except it would never change in any way.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I'm not off topic at all, and I'm following the conversation. I provided numerous reasons why the entities are related, and you chose to question one point: the darkness vs light. We were discussing that, I showed why your objection was incorrect, and you decided I was off topic.

No, you provided speculation as to why you think they are the 'same', and none of it evidenced by any actual logic.
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
Set and Satan, Lucifer and Prometheus, etc, are one and the same, machinations of the Powers of Darkness. They are all individual reflections of That which is universally called the Prince of Darkness.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Lucifer...isn't just the bringer of light...He is the angel of Light, contrasting against in this thread proposed as 'Aten', or Atenism, presumably. Doesn't correlate, and when compared to ''Satan'', really doesn't correlate, because Hebrew monotheism isn't Atenism.
 
Last edited:

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
No, you provided speculation as to why you think they are the 'same', and none of it evidenced by any actual logic.

Actually I provided facts. Let's look at them.

1. In popular Egyptian mythology, Set was the “god against the gods”, being a threat to Ma’at and eternally combated (and, of course, eventually defeated) by Horus. This is near identical to the evolving views on Satan over the centuries. It represents separation from God, tries to divide us from God.

2. In Hebrew it was an adversary to test faith in God, and in Christianity it is a literal being trying to eternally separate us from God.

3. one of the oldest meanings of Set is “separator” or “isolator”.

4. In Christian symbolism, God and goodness tends to be associated with light whereas Satan and evil are associated with the darkness. This is extremely common symbolism found even all the way back in Egyptian religion, like with the solar worship and fear of the sun being stopped by Apep in the underworld

5. Set was always very clearly associated with darkness, from his original form of an afterlife deity, to his associations with Apep and pure evil.

6. Satan was not always considered evil. Originally Satan worked for God in order to test the faith of man, which changed only with Christianity.

7. For Set, he was consider the sole son of Nut, and was important to the nomadic Egyptians as a god who brought storms. However, with the importation of the Osirian religion, and thus Solar religion, Set was made into a villain and scapegoat, being a murderer, rapist, pederast, and so on

8. Likewise Satan, who gave humanity knowledge, and acted as an agent of God, was later turned into a representation of all things evil.

9. Being represented by the northern circumpolar stars, Set was also closely associated with the serpent, thanks not only to Draco but to Alpha Draconis having been the previous pole star.

Do you dispute any of these? Based on them I move to the condition that:

"They were both beings associated with darkness, both representing that which went again God or the gods, both associated with the serpent, individual strength, both being slowly demonized and scapegoated by a god of resurrection, a new afterlife, the concept of “sin”, and so on. No, the names do not seem to be related historically, though it is interesting to note that Satan originally meant “adversary” whereas Set closely resembles it as “Separator”. Perhaps most interesting, the modern religions of these two beings stemmed from the same place and time in history. In other words, the idea that there is no relation between Set and Satan is, in a word, fideism."
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Yes, because the Greeks never took anything from Egypt, right? Plato probably pulled the theory out of his ***! We know quite clearly that there was a divide between initiated and mundane knowledge, such as the extreme importance of Set to Osiris. I'm not sure why you're talking about the ToS when I don't think there are any members here. You didn't get in, we get it, just drop it! I'd be curious for you to show where Setianism claims to be some sort of pagan revival.

Set is around way before the Greeks and Egypt have dealings, so I just thought it largely irrelevant to the discussion. You pulled the whole, "I get it you didn't get in.", right out of your butt... You're just a presumptuous little thing aren't you? Either you're probing for information to support your confirmation bias or your whole notion of anything in this discussion are based on limited appeals to authority or genetic fallacies which render your opinions irrelevant.

I get it, you don't like me, I don't care. I'm not looking for emotional support from someone who hasn't displayed a tendency to make sense at any time. :D
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
Set is around way before the Greeks and Egypt have dealings, so I just thought it largely irrelevant to the discussion. You pulled the whole, "I get it you didn't get in.", right out of your butt... You're just a presumptuous little thing aren't you? Either you're probing for information to support your confirmation bias or your whole notion of anything in this discussion are based on limited appeals to authority or genetic fallacies which render your opinions irrelevant.

I get it, you don't like me, I don't care. I'm not looking for emotional support from someone who hasn't displayed a tendency to make sense at any time. :D

Well you're aware Set was an Egyptian god, and the Greeks learned much from the Egyptians, are you not?
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I am trying to compare a strictly polytheistic to a strictly monotheistic system. Were you actually an occultist

I'm not an ''occultist''. Nothing in my syncretism is anything that I would label the 'occult', :p and any study is contextual as well, not an overall study of all occult. Not that it matters, since what you are presenting is religious speculation, anyway.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Set and Satan, Lucifer and Prometheus, etc, are one and the same, machinations of the Powers of Darkness. They are all individual reflections of That which is universally called the Prince of Darkness.

I agree that the Setians do associate these things, but if I were to analyze them in a historical or Jungian archetype way I wouldn't say that they were equivalent. The OP was in the context of historical or "outside of the box" understanding of these terms so that is where most of my comments are directed. It's perfectly fine to syncretize things as long as you know you are doing it and this might not be the way that ancient thought or whatever. None of these comments were meant in a way to "delegitimize" Setians as a whole, the discussion was about Set not about Setians. :D

In many ways Satanists do this same thing too, and I get it. I mean the Satan I understand isn't exactly the same devious character of Christian conception.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
Here's an occulty question yet to be asked: if modern day systems related Set to Satan, isn't that more than enough? Why trust old, ingrained traditions but not allowed for modern ones? How would something be less valid simply by being newer? I mean, that's exactly how things like philosophy and science should work!
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
I think this is both an interesting and important discussion, I know it certainly is to me personally. Plus I can't sleep! I think the question "are Set and Satan the same?" is a bit misleading in its own right. Even where there are direct correlations like Set to Typhon, you would not say they are the "same". By their very name they are obviously different entities. This does not mean that the two do not share (an extreme number of) characteristics.

Set was a god of ancient Egypt.

Ha-Satan was a servant of God according to Judaism, and became Public Enemy #1 according to Christianity (after butchering the concept).

There is no relation. Nothing left to discuss. :shrug:

On the skin of it, sure. But when it comes to human beings creating mythologies, as well as human beings sharing similar experiences, things need not be identical in order to be closely related. For example, the vast majority of religions have a Sun god, and they are different gods in each culture. Does this somehow mean they do not reference the same thing? Not at all.

Saturn is also called Black Sun, and Black is both Saturn´s color and Satan’s color..

A "Black Sun" is a contradiction in terms and the logical interpretation and explanation of this archetypical symbol should be "some kind of a light ind the dark".

The Ancient Myths represents IMO real astronomical/cosmological facts and "a ligt in the dark" must be connected to a real celestial observation which can fit to the mythical telling of the archetype in question.

The largest light which can be observed in the dark night, is the light contours of the Milky Way which can be imagined as a human looking figure in the Sky. See more here - Man and Animal. Monsters and fabulous Creatures - where the Milky Way figure on the northern hemisphere is compared to the Norse god Frej as a Rock Carving image aside with the image of the the Egyptian god Set who is similar to the Roman god Saturnus.

If so, this celestial white figure in the dark of course has nothing to do with "a devil" but it is just the mythical and astronomical telling which is connected to the creation of the Milky Way everyting in this galaxy.

Saturnus (and the Egyptian god Seth) fits very well to the Story of Creation as a fertility deity. There is nothing evil in this but this mythical/religious light figure in the dark has been connected with all evil in the dualistic interpretation.

Celestial observance definitely plays an important role in understanding mythology, as well as life experience literally all humans share, and the similar, subconscious thought processes and evolutionary traits we are inclined towards (such as aggression).

Isn't Set an Egyptian deity?

Set is the culturally ancient Egyptian interpretation of certain aspects of the universe, yes.

Satan, Hades, Ahriman, Samyaza, Enki, and Melek Taus could be seen as sharing archetypal roles such as:

1) Ruler of hell/Underworld

I would consider pretty much all Sumerian afterlife to be "the underworld" haha, those guys were seriously pessimistic. Melek Taus is explicitly NOT associated with the underworld or hell, but he is a symbol of light and salvation. Remember, LaVey and those he took from were incorrect in their association of Melek Taus with the christian devil. He is actually the head of the archons/angels.

2) Bringer of the Promethean Fire

I'm not sure what you mean here, because this references one very specific story in history relating to the Greek gods. Ahriman, Melek Taus, Satan, nor Enki are seen in this light, bringing some sort of enlightening gift to mankind. Ahriman is simply the darkness, it does not bring about anything in mythology but abominations (and a peacock, interestingly the symbol of Melek Taus), Enki was part of a Zeus like uprising against the older gods, such as the mother Tiamat. If you are referencing the stories where Enki is said to have been the creator of mankind, it must be remembered that mankind were made as slaves. The only real correlation between Satan actually possibly doing such a thing within christian and jewish mythology is the serpent in the garden. Of course both the religions, this is in no way understood as some sort of light-bringing experience, but an act of evil.

3) Illuminator

This is kind of the same as above, but without direct ties to Greek myth. See above.

4) Ruler of Earth

This doesn't really do anything, because all sorts of Gods have been considered rulers. Basically where henotheism exists there was a "slightly better" god for each group.

5) Rebel vs Heaven/Holy

Ahriman does not actually do or accomplish anything like this, Ahriman simply is what it is. Melek Taus is very much associated with the heavenly and holy, being the first who will be welcomed into heaven at the end of time. Melek Taus is actually a very demanding and controlling deity based on what we know from interpretations like the Al Jilwah (sp?). Enki is a rebel in what would be seen, from a LHP perspective, the wrong direction. Simply rebelling does not make one fit into this archetype, there are bad rebellions (like IS?...). Enki was part of an uprising meant to bring about a heavenly/holy order, which then led to him creating mankind as SLAVES. This is certainly not the same archetype.

6) Teacher of Magic/Mystery or Art

Literally tons of people in the bible, godly and evil, use magic and taught it. Hell what else do you call the miracles of Jesus? I'm not exactly sure how Melek Taus would fit here, certainly not Ahriman.

Set's archetypal roles:

1) Ruler of the desert
2) Ruler of foreign nations
3) Storm God

Yes, though these are not really "archetypal" takes, but rather literal ones. Archetypes and the literally things they represent are different. Plus things like the night sky, the northern and southern starts, etc.

4) Defender of the cycle of the day (Ra's Boat), battling Apep (Chaos)

In a way, though it is clear that Set does this for his own benefit, and eventually even gets in trouble for this. Not only does Set defend the boat, he is the only one who CAN, and this is why he takes advantage of the Gods in return for defending the boat.

5) Minor role in the entire Osiris rebirth story

This is simply incorrect. Set was extremely important to Osiris, who himself was always a passive god. Set not only initiates Osiris into death, but also carried Osiris into the Duat in the form of a Bull (a consistent and ancient form of Set). The adze tool, critical to the Opening of the Mouth Ceremony, was based off of the thigh of the bull, the big dipper, and directly tied to Set.

6) Rival of Horus, God of the fertile plain (Set was a nature deity..)

In part yes, but even more importantly was the association with light and dark. It seems true based on all this that Set does not correlate to Melek Taus, Enki, or Arhiman, but certainly seems to correlate to Satan. Both represent things outside the paradigm, both associated with the "dark," both opposed to the static, holy, heaven like paradigms, etc and so on.

Never once except in the late period was Set seen as maligned and that was because of the Aten cults. The "Devil" of Egyptian mythology was Apep not Set. If anything, Set is a pretty minor character on the whole. None of his "archetypes" or roles line up with these other fellows.

This is completely, entirely inaccurate. Set was demonized a few times, only to rise in popularity again. In fact Set experienced one of his greatest periods with the Ramses dynasty, which came AFTER the Armana period (when Aten rose up and inevitably died out). The main cause for the demonization of Set was foreign rulers in the intermediate and late periods. As they were associated with Set, which you yourself acknowledged above, Set went down with the people's dislike of the rulers. Apep is actually much more comparable to Arhiman, because it was so far removed from the universe and isolated. It was something that simply existed and did what it did, the remaining threat from the pre-ordered primordial chaos.
 
Last edited:
Top