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Set isn't Satan

is Set, the same as Satan?


  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Set isn't Satan. Set is a mythic character /whether you believe in him or not, who really doesn't have any connection to any 'satan'.

There isn't an 'archetype', because an archetype can't be completely contextual or specific to a single idea of /satan, in this instance



discuss
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Set was a god of ancient Egypt.

Ha-Satan was a servant of God according to Judaism, and became Public Enemy #1 according to Christianity (after butchering the concept).

There is no relation. Nothing left to discuss. :shrug:
 

Aštra’el

Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
There isn't an 'archetype', because an archetype can't be completely contextual or specific to a single idea of /satan, in this instance
discuss

Every god has an archetype (or archetypes) even various demons and angels of Abrahamic mythology may have archetypes.

Set's archetype is about the desert, storms, chaos, darkness, etc

Satan's archetype in Judaism is about the inner obstacles meant to be overcome, the temptation, the allure of certain things that go against God. Satan's archetype in Christianity is about ultimate Evil, ultimate hubris, ultimate deception, ultimate temptation, ultimate damnation, etc.

YHVH's archetype appears to be ultimate Creation, ultimate destruction, and ultimate Order over ultimate Chaos.

I did not take the poll because deific archetypes can evolve from culture to culture, understandings and depictions of gods and goddesses and their deific archetypes may be merged and syncretized, creating different versions or interpretations of those gods and goddesses, or imagining entirely new deities inspired by those previous gods' archetypes.


 
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Sutekh

Priest of Odin
Premium Member
Set isn't Satan. Set is a mythic character /whether you believe in him or not, who really doesn't have any connection to any 'satan'.

There isn't an 'archetype', because an archetype can't be completely contextual or specific to a single idea of /satan, in this instance



discuss
To some extent I might agree with some of your statements regarding Set I view him to be entirely different from Satan. In my opinion Set is the Tester, he is the isolator and the cutter of weakness. He is also the god of chaos just like the serpent Apep. Archetypes in my opinion can be used just like Set, Satan for example is used as a symbolic character within Satanism but many Satanists have a different view of Satan. But unlike Set, Satan is the "one who questions," Set in my opinion is the one who isolates the initiate.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
While some may claim otherwise, there is no reason to believe that the Hebrew word “Satan” is at all related to the Egyptian god Set. This is simply a ridiculous claim based on the sound of the name Set-hen, which comes from a language we don’t even actually know how to pronounce. So no, the claim is ridiculous. However, Set and Satan are similar in almost every other way.

In Setian cosmology, gods are understood as Platonic Forms, the essence of things that exist, which carry the characteristics of god. It can be thought of like archetypes, except the Forms are not simply abstract ideas – they truly exist. Set is the Form of individual, independent self-hood, or Isolate Intelligence. You know that deep, seemingly continuous Self that you are almost constantly aware of, that seems able to control your body, that thinks abstractly and day dreams? This is the Form of Set, representing that which is separate from and can go against nature. In popular Egyptian mythology, Set was the “god against the gods”, being a threat to Ma’at and eternally combated (and, of course, eventually defeated) by Horus. This is near identical to the evolving views on Satan over the centuries. It represents separation from God, tries to divide us from God. In Hebrew it was an adversary to test faith in God, and in Christianity it is a literal being trying to eternally separate us from God. Interestingly, one of the oldest meanings of Set is “separator” or “isolator”. Set was so separated from the gods that it is the only deity represented by an animal that does not exist.

In Christian symbolism, God and goodness tends to be associated with light whereas Satan and evil are associated with the darkness. This is extremely common symbolism found even all the way back in Egyptian religion, like with the solar worship and fear of the sun being stopped by Apep in the underworld. Set was always very clearly associated with darkness, from his original form of an afterlife deity, to his associations with Apep and pure evil.

It is also important to note that Satan was not always considered evil. Originally Satan worked for God in order to test the faith of man, which changed only with Christianity. The decline of Set was even greater, as he was once one of the most respected and revered deities in Egypt. For Set, he was consider the sole son of Nut, and was important to the nomadic Egyptians as a god who brought storms. However, with the importation of the Osirian religion, and thus Solar religion, Set was made into a villain and scapegoat, being a murderer, rapist, pederast, and so on. Likewise Satan, who gave humanity knowledge, and acted as an agent of God, was later turned into a representation of all things evil.

Speaking of the serpent in the garden giving humanity higher cognitive abilities, it is interesting to note that Set was the deity required to combat Apep, the god of mindlessness, chaos, and disorder. Being represented by the northern circumpolar stars, Set was also closely associated with the serpent, thanks not only to Draco but to Alpha Draconis having been the previous pole star.

Anyways, I think I’ll move into the summarization now. Set and Satan are almost identical Forms, even in the evolution of their character and their mythologies. They were both beings associated with darkness, both representing that which went again God or the gods, both associated with the serpent, individual strength, both being slowly demonized and scapegoated by a god of resurrection, a new afterlife, the concept of “sin”, and so on. No, the names do not seem to be related historically, though it is interesting to note that Satan originally meant “adversary” whereas Set closely resembles it as “Separator”. Perhaps most interesting, the modern religions of these two beings stemmed from the same place and time in history. In other words, the idea that there is no relation between Set and Satan is, in a word, fideism.

If anyone it interested, I recommend “Seth: God of Confusion” by H. Te Velde. It is likely the best academic and objective work you will find, untouched by mysticism, occultism, or other such biases. Next, “The Invention of Satanism” by Dyrendal, Lewis, and Peterson is also fantastic – a modern, very objective academic study on Satanism including a wealth of statistical data. Finally, while the most open to bias as it is from an “insider”, “Lords of the Left Hand Path” by Dr. Stephen Flowers is a fantastic look at the history of the Left Hand Path, both East and West.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
Further, and based on other talks we've had, I'm not sure you fully understand the nature of occult thought or the LHP. The linear, solar thinking of our society doesn't really cut it. Basically it wouldn't even matter if Set and Satan were not related, as long as one drew a meaningful and pragmatic connection between them. Of course this isn't the case, and Set represents simply the oldest version of the dark, isolate being against the natural order.
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
Saturn is also called Black Sun, and Black is both Saturn´s color and Satan’s color..

A "Black Sun" is a contradiction in terms and the logical interpretation and explanation of this archetypical symbol should be "some kind of a light ind the dark".

The Ancient Myths represents IMO real astronomical/cosmological facts and "a ligt in the dark" must be connected to a real celestial observation which can fit to the mythical telling of the archetype in question.

The largest light which can be observed in the dark night, is the light contours of the Milky Way which can be imagined as a human looking figure in the Sky. See more here - Man and Animal. Monsters and fabulous Creatures - where the Milky Way figure on the northern hemisphere is compared to the Norse god Frej as a Rock Carving image aside with the image of the the Egyptian god Set who is similar to the Roman god Saturnus.

If so, this celestial white figure in the dark of course has nothing to do with "a devil" but it is just the mythical and astronomical telling which is connected to the creation of the Milky Way everyting in this galaxy.

Saturnus (and the Egyptian god Seth) fits very well to the Story of Creation as a fertility deity. There is nothing evil in this but this mythical/religious light figure in the dark has been connected with all evil in the dualistic interpretation.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Set isn't Satan. Set is a mythic character /whether you believe in him or not, who really doesn't have any connection to any 'satan'.

There isn't an 'archetype', because an archetype can't be completely contextual or specific to a single idea of /satan, in this instance



discuss

I find your use of the word archetype strange when you apply that they have no context. The whole concept derives from Jungian psychology for the most part, and within that "context" the archetypes exist in the unconscious stream. That's to say they are not identified by a particular character, culture, or religion. For example:

Satan, Hades, Ahriman, Samyaza, Enki, and Melek Taus could be seen as sharing archetypal roles such as:

1) Ruler of hell/Underworld
2) Bringer of the Promethean Fire
3) Illuminator
4) Ruler of Earth
5) Rebel vs Heaven/Holy
6) Teacher of Magic/Mystery or Art

Etc...

Set's archetypal roles:

1) Ruler of the desert
2) Ruler of foreign nations
3) Storm God
4) Defender of the cycle of the day (Ra's Boat), battling Apep (Chaos)
5) Minor role in the entire Osiris rebirth story
6) Rival of Horus, God of the fertile plain (Set was a nature deity..)

Never once except in the late period was Set seen as maligned and that was because of the Aten cults. The "Devil" of Egyptian mythology was Apep not Set. If anything, Set is a pretty minor character on the whole. None of his "archetypes" or roles line up with these other fellows.

Your logic could be applied to Satan as well, but both things fail on the existential proof. It is equally invalid to say something doesn't exist that you cannot see, as to say something does not exist because you've never seen it. :D The proper comment is that, "You are not aware of any X", rather than your statement which implies you have some sort of unequivocal proof -- that can neither exist, nor can you possess ever. You cannot even prove you exist because it is impossible to separate the subject, object, and viewer. However, just because that proof doesn't exist doesn't mean that someone can assume Set or Satan exists either. :D The games of logic... :D
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
I find your use of the word archetype strange when you apply that they have no context. The whole concept derives from Jungian psychology for the most part, and within that "context" the archetypes exist in the unconscious stream. That's to say they are not identified by a particular character, culture, or religion.
I agree in this.
You cannot even prove you exist because it is impossible to separate the subject, object, and viewer. However, just because that proof doesn't exist doesn't mean that someone can assume Set or Satan exists either. :D The games of logic... :D
When it comes to determine the ancient deity myths and their "archetypical attributes", it is of course very important to know to which celestial objects the deities is connected.
IMO speaks the Ancient Myths of Creation of factual celestial images and motions which is described in "the images of humans", but ALSO as concrete astronomical and cosmological knowledge.
Read more here - Ancient Science. The Ancient and native Way of Knowledge
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Isn't Set an Egyptian deity?


Yes, however there can be mythic character sameness, from culture to culture, to an extent. I don't think that Set and Satan are an example of a same deity, in other words. I think that the name similarity, /there could be one, sort of/, is coincidental.
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
I don't think that Set and Satan are an example of a same deity, in other words. I think that the name similarity, /there could be one, sort of/, is coincidental.
If we interpret "Satan" as in the Roman Saturnus deity of fertility, I think this fits very well to the Egyptian Set.
See the illustration here - Man and Animal. Monsters and fabulous Creatures - where this figure most likely represents the Milky Way contour on the northern hemisphere and thus is a part of the Story of Creation. (NOT the creation of the entire Universe, but just of the ancient known part of it)
 

Sutekh

Priest of Odin
Premium Member
Further, and based on other talks we've had, I'm not sure you fully understand the nature of occult thought or the LHP.

Some people who try to study ones beliefs by researching the LHP are blinded to not fully understand it. My dad is an example of a person who tends to be blinded
By getting inaccurate information when he tries to study Satanism. Don Webb once brought up an interesting statement, it does not seem egotistical but he has a point. I believe he brought up that 90% of us in the LHP are more intelligent than the population in mainstream society to that extent. This statement was brought up in the Mysteries of the Temple of Set.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Every god has an archetype (or archetypes) even various demons and angels of Abrahamic mythology may have archetypes.

Set's archetype is about the desert, storms, chaos, darkness, etc

Satan's archetype in Judaism is about the inner obstacles meant to be overcome, the temptation, the allure of certain things that go against God. Satan's archetype in Christianity is about ultimate Evil, ultimate deception, ultimate temptation, ultimate damnation, etc.

YHVH's archetype appears to be ultimate Creation, ultimate destruction, and ultimate Order over ultimate Chaos.

I did not take the poll because deific archetypes can evolve from culture to culture, understandings and depictions of gods and goddesses and their deific archetypes may be merged and syncretized, creating different versions or interpretations of those gods and goddesses, or imagining entirely new deities inspired by those previous gods' archetypes.

The fact that archetypes do vary to the specific character of satan, means that you can 'answer the poll'. An archetype is singular, that's why it's ''an archetype''. That's what archetype means. If a character varies widely, he/she isn't an archetype.
 

Sutekh

Priest of Odin
Premium Member
your bad suppositions to a bad supposition is indicative of serious lack of understanding of occult matters, in general

Your supposition seems confusing and also lacking as well for example you claim that an Archetype is of none importance how so? As Mindmaster and godessAshtora brought up archetypes, it serves as a useful purpose. Without having an archetype what is the point of using a deity? You seem to be rather lost the more I always come across your posts onto Satanism and the LHP in general.
 

Onyx

Active Member
Premium Member
Set isn't Satan.
Historically, no, I think the archetypes were developed independently.

If I invoke Count Dracula, it is with the understanding that it represents some particular aspect of Set (as the primordial source of higher consciousness) that I wish to explore. Same with Satan, as a symbol for a more focused understanding of the carnal aspects of our individuality.
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
The fact that archetypes do vary to the specific character of satan, means that you can 'answer the poll'. An archetype is singular, that's why it's ''an archetype''. That's what archetype means. If a character varies widely, he/she isn't an archetype.
^

Your supposition seems confusing and also lacking as well for example you claim that an Archetype is of none importance how so? As Mindmaster and godessAshtora brought up archetypes, it serves as a useful purpose. Without having an archetype what is the point of using a deity? You seem to be rather lost the more I always come across your posts onto Satanism and the LHP in general.
Answered above.


I seem to recall already telling you that I have knowledge concerning various occult matters, /from study/, you seem to be ignoring that. Great. That isn't my problem, but your bad suppositions are still indicative that you are having difficulty separating fact from fiction.

Anyways enough of that
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Historically, no, I think the archetypes were developed independently.

If I invoke Count Dracula, it is with the understanding that it represents some particular aspect of Set (as the primordial source of higher consciousness) that I wish to explore. Same with Satan, as a symbol for a more focused understanding of the carnal aspects of our individuality.

Could be, but Dracula and Set are actually different characters. I understand that people like to use archetypes, but it can get very broad and abstract. It's the persons prerogative, ultimately, but the actual usage of ''archetype'', isn't broad
 

Sutekh

Priest of Odin
Premium Member
^





I seem to recall already telling you that I have knowledge concerning various occult matters, /from study/, you seem to be ignoring that. Great.

You seem to be rather arrogant of that, can you show your so called knowledge and claims of your occult matters. You seem to always confuse things and act closed minded.
 
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