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Secular Humanism

Discussion in 'Non-theism' started by ZenMonkey, Oct 22, 2019.

  1. ZenMonkey

    ZenMonkey St. James VII

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    Humanism ... as in doing what we do for our peers and future ... Even as a secularist, or a non secularist there can be a bridge that connects ... like humanism. For the betterment and future betterment of our quality of life. The concept of gods or God needn''t apply at all, as we have life to guide us and all life entails, and everything we are individually and collectively. Life ... What will make it better? That's my question. What will make life better for everyone?
     
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  2. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Humanism needs to make clearer the fact that we humans cannot for long flourish if we destroy the eco-systems our lives depend on. That is to say, environmental responsibility must be recognized as a humane and humanistic value.
     
  3. ZenMonkey

    ZenMonkey St. James VII

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    I guess, but that doesn't lend a great deal of faith in adaptation does it? I do believe we should live responsible, be considerate and think ahead, but then there's only so much foresight available. Like cows ... the fart and poop a lot which pollutes the air worse than cars n stuff. Are to do away with cows or refuse to feed them? I'm kidding of course, but ... There's only so much we can do. What about when the sun goes super nova? I mean, we can take precautions but in the end we have a stunning way of adapting to environment, and of course evolving according to need, so I tend to just have faith in life and try to live as happy as possible given my circumstances.
     
  4. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    The poor sentence structure of this post makes it hard to respond.

    But, let me just say this.
    Objective morality is fundamentally selfish.
    Recognizing that behaving in a certain way will probably result in a better life experience, for you, is the foundation of morality. A general term for this is "enlightened self-interest".

    Secular Humanism is a more objective morality than Religious Morality, because it's based on evidence and reason as opposed to human beings making things up and attributing them to a fictional character in old books.

    Secular morals are better than religious morals for the same basic reason that secular science is better than religious science. It's based on reality rather than opinion.
    Tom
     
  5. ZenMonkey

    ZenMonkey St. James VII

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    Exactly ... that's life! A huge melting pot of ideals and philosophies and cultures and lifestyles and what not. Life, it's all life. As for non secular ideals, I see a great deal of benefit in many of them. I enjoy theology. I enjoy philosophy. I could enjoy life more than I do, but life situations don't always cooperate or lend themselves to better quality. Old books like autobiographies or history books or are you speaking about religious texts? I mean, I enjoy history, civics, science, and other "old books". I enjoy religious texts also. Lot to garner from them all ... so many little nuggets, and gems, and, pearls to gain I find it a shame to not at least stick my nose in one every now and then. Religious morals ... Lets say you're from a region where old ways were to overpower and enslave ... Do you think a few religious morals would be beneficial then?
     
  6. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    We humans have been making moral progress. We are treating each other better now than at any time in our past.

    Religions have had nothing to do with that. For example, the movements to abolish legal slavery and to give women and homosexuals equal rights are not supported by the sacred texts of religion.

    Secular humanism, IMO, is an unnecessary response to the Christian brag that "Our morals are better than your morals!" The bragging aimed at non-believers.

    BTW, I'm not implying that ALL Christians are guilty of this brag anymore than ALL atheists are guilty of bragging "We're smarter than you!"
     
  7. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    That statement is both arrogant and ignorant.
     
  8. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    Your opinion is noted. Can we assume that you didn't support your opinion with reasons because you have none?
     
  9. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    I am absolutely certain that you can (have, and will) do so irrespective of what I might say.
     
  10. ZenMonkey

    ZenMonkey St. James VII

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    I'll disagree with your first statement. Religions have most certainly had something to do with this. Not just one, but many. The movement goes across the board. From both the secular world and non secular world. So, bragging rights don't truly belong to any single side. Do you have any idea what religious institutions donate for example? Food, clothing, funds, etc. The same is true for the other side ... People donate and help on all sides. Here's something some may not know. The porn industry even helps with donations and volunteer work. Again, no bragging rights ... just an acknowledgement that people of all walks of life help.

    When it comes to morals ... they vary. Individuality is so important and acceptance of that fact and that we're not required to adopt the morals of others.
     
  11. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    Please read what I wrote again.

    Religions have had nothing to do with that. For example, the movements to abolish legal slavery and to give women and homosexuals equal rights are not supported by the sacred texts of religion.

    My examples, referring to the sacred texts, should tell you that I am referring to the doctrine, the teachings, of religions.

    We humans, religious or not, have a conscience which guides us morally. So, when, say Catholics, make moral progress we ask: "Was their progress due to their religious teachings or because their conscience moved them to become better people?"

    The movement to abolish slavery in the world started to gain momentum in about 1700. Yet a century and a half later, in 1866, the Catholic pope wrote that he could find nothing in "divine law" opposed to the buying, selling or trading of slaves. And, according to his Bible, he was right. But lay Catholics, being human and owning a conscience, favored the abolition of slavery anyway.

    So, you can give religious groups credit for organizing charities. But when you do that you aren't making a valid counter-point to my argument that the sacred texts of religion have had no influence (neither positive nor negative) on humanity's moral progress.
     
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  12. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    There's not much we can do about the sun, but we can resolve to be non-tribal and respect the moral equality and human rights of everyone.

    Just be nice. Don't harm others, and don't harm the planet, and yes, that might entail not eating the farting cows.:rolleyes:
     
  13. ZenMonkey

    ZenMonkey St. James VII

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    A couple points: Charity in 1 Corinthians 13 ... also love your neighbor and moving on to Moses freeing the captives in Egypt, etc. So yeah, I can absolutely credit sacred text for philanthropy and the acts of charity and that they lead the adherents to help the world and those in need in general. All religious texts? I couldn't answer that one ... many I have not read. The bible? Certainly and I'll assume the qua ran also given one of my spiritual brothers uses the quran (in part) in his religion (Bahai) Faith.

    So, it's not necessarily the texts that can be blamed for misguidance as they certainly lead to people helping people. I think by and large that that's the reason for them. By the way, I lean to the left ... far left of the right sheep side, but my roots are far right side. I'm a capricorn if that tells you anything. Anyway, people not helping people and people helping people boils down to choice, but you can't claim that sacred texts don't lead people to acts of altruism.
     
  14. ZenMonkey

    ZenMonkey St. James VII

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    I like beef .. it's what's for dinner ... Sometimes. I try to be nice but when cornered I can get mean. I pick up my own messes and cigarette butts, and only toss one down when I'm pissed and feel disrespected by my immediate environment. Equality ... The power of eh? It's such a powerful and beautiful thing to aspire to achieve. It's a lot like awareness and education and understanding and wisdom and all the things that can help us become more effective in life.
     
  15. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    No, you're mistaken. You can't credit the Bible with causing believers to perform charitable acts because humans Christian and non-Christian perform charitable acts. In other words, if those Christians had never heard of the Bible, they'd still be performing charitable acts. It's human nature.
     
  16. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    Exactly.
    The reason that Christians, over all, are somewhat superior to Muslims, overall, is simply because Christian culture has adopted far more secular morality than Islamic culture.
    Not that the difference is huge, but it's there.
    That's why Muslims are moving in droves to Christendom. Because Christians are less Christian than Muslims are Islamic.

    Tom
     
  17. MonkeyFire

    MonkeyFire Well-Known Member

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    For knowledge and faith to come together as one.
     
  18. ZenMonkey

    ZenMonkey St. James VII

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    I think I suggested that the bible leads to and points to and promotes acts of charity. Even arguing from an atheist pov, that much is clear.
     
  19. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    It's no more objective than religious morality because it is really just a secularised version of liberal Christianity minus the god bits and the ritual.

    The idea that it represents universal moral truths is one of the core legacies of Christianity (as is the concept of the secular itself).
     
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