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Scripturally, Do believers go to heaven?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by wmam, Feb 26, 2006.

  1. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    I say no.

    What do you say?
     
  2. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    I say no, as well. I say that only believers go to heaven, but not all believers go to heaven. (And by heaven I mean the celestial kingdom).
     
  3. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    define "celestial kingdom"?

    I say that there are three heavens and that we, when we die, no matter how saved we think we are, is there no where in the Scriptures that promise that we go to any other heaven than the first.
     
  4. Buttons*

    Buttons* Glass half Panda'd

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    ...did i miss something? Why would God reward some with a higher level of heaven? Doesn't he love us all the same? (sorry if this doesnt fit here)

    personally i dont believe in heaven or hell, so i guess my opinion is pointless in this thread....
     
  5. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    This explains the celestial kingdom (as well as the terrestrial and telestial).
     
  6. Squirt

    Squirt Well-Known Member

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    I say "yes." But I also say that most non-believers will go to Heaven, too. Jesus Christ said that He will reward all men according to their works. I don't believe that everybody who will go to heaven will receive exactly the same reward. But, I think that very, very few will end up not receiving some degree of God's glory and being cast out of Heaven entirely.
     
  7. Buttercup

    Buttercup Veteran Member

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    As a side question because I don't know the answer to this....Do LDS' think Christian believers from other denominations go to Heaven?
     
  8. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    He loves us all the same, but some people don't earn it. It would be very unloving to give two people exactly the same thing when one person deserves it more than the other.

    If by "heaven" you mean the celestial kingdom, where they will reside with the Father in all his glory, than no. If by "heaven" you mean they will go to a place is a billion times better than anything here, and whatnot, then yes.
     
  9. Buttercup

    Buttercup Veteran Member

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    So you are saying that Mormons are the chosen ones?
     
  10. Squirt

    Squirt Well-Known Member

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    Buttons, my dear, your opinion is always welcome and never pointless. Given that you believe in neither heaven nor hell, my answer to you may be pointless, though.

    To me, a heaven comprised of different "degrees of glory" makes a great deal more sense than one where the most righteous and obedient of God's children received no greater reward than those who just "squeaked in by the skin of their teeth." It's also far more Biblical. In the Bible, Stephen spoke specifically of "the third heaven." How much sense does it make to believe in a third heaven if there is not also a first or a second heaven?

    God loves us all the same, but He gave us commandments and stressed the need for us to keep them. Imagine a parent with two sons. He gives them the same rules and explains to both of them what the consequences will be if they disobey and what their reward will be if they obey. One of the sons is obedient and the other is not. Should the parent say to the first, "Well done! You have been obedient in all you've done. For this, I give you [such and such reward]."? And to the second, should He say, "You have disobeyed me at every opportunity. I have given you many opportunities to mend your ways, but you never have. But since I love you, I will disregard what I said I'd done if you disobeyed. You are to have the same reward for your bad behavior as your brother had for his good behavior."?
     
  11. Squirt

    Squirt Well-Known Member

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    No. Please don't think that.
     
  12. Buttons*

    Buttons* Glass half Panda'd

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    your answer makes a lot of sense to me, thank you for clarifying that! *smiles*
     
  13. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    What do you mean by chosen ones?

    Do you mean that all mormons, by virtue of the fact that they are mormons, will go to the celstial kingdom? That's not true.

    What I mean is that there are certain things Christ needs from us for us to be exhalted. Some of those things (like baptism by one holding proper authority) can only be found in the mormon church.
     
  14. Buttercup

    Buttercup Veteran Member

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    I asked Aqua if LDS think other denominations of Christians go to heaven. She said not the 'best' heaven (celestial kingdom). What else am I supposed to surmise from that statement?
     
  15. Buttercup

    Buttercup Veteran Member

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    Right. So I ask again, do you think only these Mormons are the chosen ones?
     
  16. Buttons*

    Buttons* Glass half Panda'd

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    How is unconditional love "unloving"?
     
  17. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    And I said, Depends what you mean by "chosen ones."
     
  18. Squirt

    Squirt Well-Known Member

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    Why do I let myself get involved in these discussions between you and Aqualung? :confused: Methinks I should learn to keep my mouth shut. How do I go about explaining our belief so that you will understand it while, at the same time, not coming across as critical of how Aqualung explained it? You just got through debating Aqualung, Buttercup. You should realize by now that her answers are not always "complete" enough to present the total picture. While they may be technically correct, there is sometimes a difference between, "the truth," "the whole truth," and "nothing but the truth." I believe that Aqualung told you the truth. I believe that the whole truth is a bit more complex than she may have indicated. Do you want me to go into it, or should I butt out?
     
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  19. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    What is unconditional love? Giving the same reward to people who don't deserve the same reward? I thought unconditional love just meant you would always love that person, not that you would give them what they don't deserve.
     
  20. Buttercup

    Buttercup Veteran Member

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    This thread is about who will go to heaven, Squirt....so have at it. That's why we're here. I think most Mormons believe they are the only true church and the rest of us Christians only get to go to a lesser heaven from what i'm gathering.....it's up to you as a long time LDS believer to set the record straight if Aqua can't.
     
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