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Featured Scriptural Prophecies

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Unveiled Artist, Mar 25, 2018.

  1. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    There are indeed far better ways for a faith to justify the legitimacy of a faith, and the Baha'i Faith does that. There is far more to the Baha'i Faith then prophecy, and there are far more prophecies from many faiths around the world through history related to the Baha'i including the prophetic vision of the Baha'i Faith for the transformation of the world since the 1840's.

    The only value I see in prophecy is in a more universal context of the spiritual evolution of humanity, and not the wide range of personal interpretations to justify one ancient religion over the other.
     
  2. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you should understand, that Christians do not follow nor go by Baha'i,

    As a Christian I follow Christ Jesus and His teachings.
    Therefore as Christians we follow our God of the bible.
    Maybe that's too hard for you to understand, but that's how it is.
     
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  3. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    The thing is, I dont see truth in scripture. The more I learn about it from an objective view (fact validity not swayed one way or another), the more I see the prophecies and "supernatural" things attributed from a book is believed by the eye of the beholder.

    The Church put the bible together. I cant see christianity existing without The Church. I know later on people started disagreeing with The Church's laws but that doesnt change they are part of the bibles creation. If not, christians would not be worshiping christ but his father.

    I would need to pick apart all you wrote, but one thing jumped out. Armegeddon. What history (factual not spiritual) leads me to and historians to know there will be an amegeddon based on other points of history and evidence today outside of the bible?

    How does "the order" of creation lead to the christian god?

    I understand somewhat saying a creator but not a specific one.
     
    #43 Unveiled Artist, Mar 26, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
  4. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    The bible is Hebrew scriptures. Everything pass that are from The Church (christs apostles) not specifically christ nor his father. The creator shouldnt be defined and kept "safe" by an existing book. The book can be destroyed.

    Where in history is there a line of god, a specific one, that cant exist without the physical NT bible?

    Latin isnt a dead language. It was originally in part in latin. If you want the truth of something you find it in its original form not the translation and oral transmission of it: this involves church tradition and politics of the day.

    They didnt fail. Over here they are starting to have more Latin Masses. I went to a Latin Mass and was beyond belief what christians believe. All. Protestants too. You all in the same boat regardless how you modernize it from catholic views.

    Whats the prophecy of Daniel outside of scripture, that we can observe today without reference to the bible supporting itself accurate?

    Thats a biblical prophecy not a historical one

    Whete is this in history?

    Facts are not bias to spiritual interpretations. It just is.

    The great tree?

    Oh. You dont have to quote scripture. Im not looking up scripture. Im not christian so I dont need to try and varify your beliefs. Im taking word for it. Thats all christian actions.

    History? Where is satan as an actual being in histort to where we know it today as a fact not what people believe as such?

    Outside of the bible, which prophecies were fulfilled?

    Greeks -> Ephesians > Romans in scripture parallels and is part of historical events during that time perios in I think Mid eastern Italy. They correlate events that happened (past tense). We see evidence here in the states by our taking arts from our parents and grandparents and putting then to our archetecture. Sport games and language itself is reflected from The Church and its culture and tradition. Its no new age as protestants see it, the non liturgical ones, its a direct interwove history.

    Anything we see today are not prophecies, but just historical events "catching up" with us. We cant modernize everything.

    Which prophecies have been fulfilled in history without needing a spiritual component and belief to influence the interpretation rater than the events standing on their own validity?
    You keep saying god did this. Where in history does it say god had has anything to do with historical events?

    Thats like saying that when the pantheon was built for Athena, when we go there, Athena guides us to worship her and the gods in the pantheon. There are alot of gods in history and made it in history and by many religions practiced today, are a continuation of these practices from yesterday until now. Christianity is no different.

    Can prophecies be spotted in history without placing god in it for it to be fulfilled?[/QUOTE]
     
  5. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    Kind of. Spiritual wisdom allowed Christ to see where paths led. He spoke where the physical was leading and where the spiritual path led. He never defined a time specific, but the events leading up to them. The paths are not preordained, just inevitable.

    He saw the path of the Jews to foretell the Jewish revolt (70AD) that many see as an end to mankind, Revelations was written to the Christians under persecution by Domitan. It was this vision of impending doom that gave the righteous the strength they needed to see the antichrist and their eventual demise. Of course, unless you believe the orthodox, who use it as a carrot and stick.

    Paul tells us that prophesy's will wind up failing.

    1 Corinthians 13:
    6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

    7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

    8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

    9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

    10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

    We have a watered down version of the Spirit that Christ spoke, as an example. Same Spirit, with a lot of darkness added over the centuries. Eventually, the Spirit will be so weak as man turns more to physical (truths). In the end, the world will overcome.

    Matthew:
    23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

    24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    25 Behold, I have told you before.

    This started during Pauls time.
    Galatians:
    6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

    7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

    8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

    9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

    John talked of it decades later:
    1 John 4:
    2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

    3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

    4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

    5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

    6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

    See it. It's not saying that Christ walked as flesh, but the Christ comes into YOUR flesh. Christ in you, makes you Christ(ian), a son (daughter) of God. Without it inside of you, you are antichrist,

    John 1:
    11 He came unto his own, and his own (Jews) received him not.

    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    It's as much as I can give, without delving into the non canon gospels, to show that the Jews way, which rejected Christ, is darkness of truth trying to define Christ which IS truth. The "other" gospels align with the canon gospels and Paul, and bring them from darkness to light. Marcion and Valentinus had a following that grew as large as the catholic. They didn't teach flesh (circumcision, diets, etc.). It grew, till the catholic ideology became Romes church, and resorted to murder, banishment, etc. to eliminate any viewpoint other than theirs. Same as the Pharisee's and Saducees's did to Jesus.

    To see it, read Galatians 2, and the Incident at Antioch. Catholic is Peters path. Gnosis is Pauls.

    Incident at Antioch - Wikipedia

    You will see both sides of the coin and decide, rather than the one side the orthodox tout.
     
  6. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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  7. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    [/QUOTE]

    I agree with your insight on Biblical views. I believe the early church fathers want us to see God as they did. And created that system by Earthly power rather than spiritual wisdom. As expansive as I believe God (the Father) is, the Bible does injustice that everything he is is contained in such a small "book" (by comparison). The word of God (Gospel) is a seed. Luke 8:11

    I can see the gospel as a seed, but what it grows into cannot even fit into a book.

    25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written.- John

    The church fathers gave us little (of Christ), and make us seek them to fill in the rest. There is still plenty out there from early Christianity to dispute their glorious church facade.

    Just my view.
     
  8. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    I have yet to read a prophecy that wasn't either so vague that it could mean virtually anything or no different from an accurate prediction.
     
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  9. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    In Nichirens writings? In his letters, The Gosho, to his disciples he spoke mostly of The Lotus Sutra and how his disciples where very helpful in bringing him food and clothing while in prision. He had visions of buddhist priests who did not adhere to The Lotus to loose the real meaning of The Dharma. There are sooo many Buddhist sects that to say his view is wrong would be overstating a false opinion. Its vague because it he does not go into specifics in how the priests would specifically lose the meaning of The Dharma. His goal was to spread Thr Lotus not go over the validity of The Dharma. Its a done deal. No debates in his mind.

    Christians have been debating for years. Was just finished reading about The Book of Kells, Lindisfarne Gospels, that weirdly enough is not in the bible. The pages "illustrates potayals of the Virgin Mary and of Christ, NT narratives" and so forth. Very interesting art. Pages of decorative roman letters speaking the gospels in art since people were illerate.

    But its vague in that there is no connection between whats written about god rather than from god. I mean, John wrote from his visions not facts. Also, John was the only one who witnessed christ crucifiction.

    A lot of specifics in history not so much in connecting prophecy if any so far.

    Where in history are there any prophecies that connect to different events during and after the roman empire and Medieval ages?

    Its nothing spiritual. God isnt in history thats all believers views. If believers experiences, visions, and opinions are fact, we should be able to see it without interpretation.
     
    #49 Unveiled Artist, Mar 26, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  10. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Hi Carlita. Miss you a lot. Hope you’re doing fine.
     
  11. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Hi Adrian. Happy Naw-Ruz!
     
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  12. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    But he wasn't.

    Yes, Egypt was a few days' walk and a common refugee site.

    That's why he's called the Nazarene, right?

    Romans liked bloodshed.

    Oh, look, maybe someone read Plato.

    I never see him developing the illnesses of those he healed, though I have watched sci fi where that happens.

    Prophetic praise of Jesus?

    Most of the bible talks in parables.

    As opposed to a Lexus?

    Very wise words. I imagine you apply that to the bible as well.

    For one thing, the books were written after the riot, so it's hindsight. Second, you don't have to be a psychic to know that the Romans, who got their empire by doing unspeakable things to people, will be more than happy to do unspeakable things to you if you annoy them enough.

    Including his?
     
    #52 Kelly of the Phoenix, Mar 26, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
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  13. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    What sparks my interest is that the bible isnt That old. In other words, its not old as in the paleoethic period. Not even old during the polytheism days of Europe. I mean, when when I think or old, I think died out history. The Roman Catholic Church still stands so a lot of what christians believe are very modern. Especially compared to the Torah.

    On that note, unless age is not an issue, I dont see how god can talk to people and give clear visions to people in the current era but then in the last what hundred of years aso, god started not talking. It could be the rest of us are looking into (and can live to do so) beliefs in god as it affects the politics of yesterday and today. The "first" influencial atheists, I guess you can say. In the US they can get away with it. Other countries not so much.

    I undestand and belief in god. Once you add the bible or any religious book or item and treat it as god (bible, Eucharist, etc) from and as god himself, I lift a eyebrow. The latter I understand it but not so far aa worship. The former, I see no reason how the bible is the source of divine expression.

    Anyway, thats my soapbox lecture...
     
    #53 Unveiled Artist, Mar 26, 2018
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  14. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Yep. Doing well. Still here. How's it over there?
     
  15. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    It’s getting cooler heading towards winter. I wish I could invite you over. My wife made a delicious lamb curry and everyone had third helpings. Always remember I consider you a beautiful person and you are always welcome in my home.
     
  16. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Hi Vinayaka. Good to see.
     
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  17. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Hmm. Lamb curry. I think I had chicken curry at our Vietnamese temple. It was a sticky purplelike rice if that sounds at all familar. Ha. Not a food person. You know we two days or snow in tue beginning of spring!

    Thank you for the invite. Wait until I get some real furniture then Id invite people over when they have good places to sit. My friend keeps telling me to fix up my place. I tell her: you got fix-up-your-place money? All in good humor.
     
  18. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Happy Naw Ruz my friend. How's it all going? Its been a busy life of late for me. Not so much time for RF.
     
  19. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    The study of art is an excellent way to learn about history. History can be a very dry topic and study of the arts can bring it to life.

    What are you having to memorize?

    Much of the history of Western Art and Civilisation is tied into Christianity.

    I suppose themes of Armageddon and the return of Christ have been a great inspiration over the centuries.

    [​IMG]

    The supernatural language such as lightening from East to West is symbolic rather than literal.

    [​IMG]

    Of course the 'us verses them' beliefs of the Christians have nothing to do with the Teachings of Christ.
     
  20. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Right now we're memorizing a lot of christian art from the Early Roman Empire, Late Empire, we started on the Medieval Period. A lot of facts. Here is an example (attached)

    Interesting that before the Church, jesus was pictured more humble. When The Romans started making their art, they changed jesus to look more judging. What's interesting is that some christians today see jesus as judging the living and the dead. I keep thinking that history is behind us; it isn't.

    Pretty much. The history we're looking at is not spiritual. If anything, in how I see the world, it's very immoral. I don't see love in christianity. That's probably something that gain interest over time to modern day. I'm sure the Romans didn't feel the same about the love we speak of today. I don't know how the Jews define the word in relation to god.

    Um. Some things are literal others are not. Those that are not in that day was considered literal. Mythology such as the pantheon dedicated to Athena and all the gods were not symbolic. Just as today, there are religious who believe in multiple gods who do very interesting things you'd think they believe its symbolism; they do not. Hard to wrap my head around; but, since I don't follow any of these beliefs, it's easier to say "that's what they believe" and leave it be.

    It is a christian thing all throughout the bible. There is no reason to save "his chosen people" if he felt all people were in the same boat. There'd be no special people. No "Jews" in the religious sense of the word. I use that because that's what Jesus taught. If there was no me vs. them (to me it's a moral issue; it's not bad in and of itself) there'd be no reason to save people. Divinity would not have religions. No manifestations vs. humans. No prophets vs. pagans. No need to teach the good gospel to those who have not heard. No need to be a disciple of Baha'ullah rather than a Hindu or a Pagan if all were on one level and there wasn't a code of morality in Christianity and other faiths.

    It's not attractive to me, though. Doesn't mean its wrong in and of itself. I can't learn from separating myself from humanity as "these of man" type of thing. No prophets. No manifestation. All egalitarian.
     

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