Not be directed the early earth had many many meteorites. I avoid hypothetical perhaps when natural down to earth explanations are adequate.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Scientific advances in abiogenesis
- Thread starter shunyadragon
- Start date
Not be directed the early earth had many many meteorites. I avoid hypothetical perhaps when natural down to earth explanations are adequate.
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
Our genetic coding indicates life was brought to Earth from beyond our solar system....there is no other plausible explanation of how the genetic coding for all life forms ended up here on Earth.
Recent evidence suggests that mechanisms other than random mutation and natural selection could play an important role in evolution - it is now apparent that horizontal gene transfer is much more widespread than previously thought. There are also many instances of genes detected in species that have no known current use for them. It is claimed that other aspects of evolution which present problems for neo-Darwinism are more easily explained by cosmic ancestry or panspermia, such as life's rapid start on Earth.
Reference: Ulrich Technau et al., "Maintenance of ancestral complexity and non-metazoan genes in two basal cnidarians" [abstract], doi:10.1016/j.tig.2005.09.007, p 633-639 v 21, Trend in Genetics, December 2005
aible, F.; Tessmar-Raible, K.; Osoegawa, K.; Wincker, P.; Jubin, C.; Balavoine, G.; Ferrier, D.; Benes, V.; De Jong, P.; Weissenbach, J.; Bork, P.; Arendt, D. (Nov 2005). "Vertebrate-type intron-rich genes in the marine annelid Platynereis dumerilii ". Science. 310(5752): 1325–1326. Bibcode:2005Sci...310.1325R. doi:10.1126/science.1119089. ISSN 0036-8075. PMID 16311335.
Arne Kusserow et al., "Unexpected complexity of the Wnt gene family in a sea anemone", doi:10.1038/nature03158, p 156-160 v 433, Nature, 13 Jan 2005
Last edited:
Your presenting an 'argument from ignorance' based a very very weak hypothesis for genetic coding.
I do not consider it a plausible explanation. We have been here before. Your reference is bogus.
Last edited:
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
Recent evidence suggests that mechanisms other than random mutation and natural selection could play an important role in evolution - it is now apparent that horizontal gene transfer is much more widespread than previously thought. There are also many instances of genes detected in species that have no known current use for them. It is claimed that other aspects of evolution which present problems for neo-Darwinism are more easily explained by cosmic ancestry or panspermia, such as life's rapid start on Earth.
Reference: Ulrich Technau et al., "Maintenance of ancestral complexity and non-metazoan genes in two basal cnidarians" [abstract], doi:10.1016/j.tig.2005.09.007, p 633-639 v 21, Trend in Genetics, December 2005
aible, F.; Tessmar-Raible, K.; Osoegawa, K.; Wincker, P.; Jubin, C.; Balavoine, G.; Ferrier, D.; Benes, V.; De Jong, P.; Weissenbach, J.; Bork, P.; Arendt, D. (Nov 2005). "Vertebrate-type intron-rich genes in the marine annelid Platynereis dumerilii ". Science. 310(5752): 1325–1326. Bibcode:2005Sci...310.1325R. doi:10.1126/science.1119089. ISSN 0036-8075. PMID 16311335.
Arne Kusserow et al., "Unexpected complexity of the Wnt gene family in a sea anemone", doi:10.1038/nature03158, p 156-160 v 433, Nature, 13 Jan 2005
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
Gene delivery can be seen as an artificial horizontal gene transfer, and is a form of genetic engineering.
Peace Peace Peace.
What is the meaning of an announcement like "LIFE'S FIRST SPARK RE-CREATED IN THE LABORATORY"? Please refer to OP.
As a working geochemist, I applaud the work of chemists who have synthesised component chemicals of living systems in laboratory. But to claim as above is not scientific, IMO. RNA is an important component of living systems. But to claim it is life's first spark is a hyperbole, IMO. This kind of claim is not strictly scientific. It is popular journalism.
Well. In this I have a different view. Sufficient to say that we do not know what life actually is. If we knew we would be able to recreate it.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Since the development of life through abiogenesis would be a rather drawn out process and there would be no clear line between life and nonlife of course the statement was a bit of hyperbole. It takes a lot longer to say "Recent discovery is an important step in understanding how abiogenesis occurred". Headlines are designed to catch one's attention and hyperbole is the norm.
You should know this, so why are you comp!aining?
Because sentience is here and now. If I claim I have created first sparks of life in laboratory, it will imply that sentience will be the inevitable product. And that has absurd implications that can be discussed separately. Sufficient to say that a mechanically created sentience is already determined and cannot have freedom to assess truth value of propositions.
I will point your attention to a post of mine that clarifies my position.
Scientific advances in abiogenesis
That is a different subject, although not unlinked. We can discuss it separately. I can only say that life is not a property of life-forms. We do not know what life is.
Last edited:
This reference concerns the mechanism of the chemical evolution of inorganic phosphates to organic phosphates.
From: Scientists Just Found a Vital Missing Link in The Origins of Life on Earth
Scientists Just Found a Vital Missing Link in The Origins of Life on Earth
Meet diamidophosphate.
MIKE MCRAE
7 NOV 2017
Carbon might be the backbone of organic chemistry, but life on Earth wouldn't be what it is today if it weren't for another critical member of the periodic table – phosphorus.
Transforming run of the mill hydrocarbons into the kinds of molecules that include this important element is a giant evolutionary leap, chemically speaking. But now scientists think they know how such a vital step was accomplished.
Researchers from The Scripps Research Institute in California have identified a molecule capable of performing phosphorylation in water, making it a solid candidate for what has until now been a missing link in the chain from lifeless soup to evolving cells.
In the classic chicken and egg conundrum of biology's origins, debate continues to rage over which process kicked off others in order to get to life. Was RNA was followed by protein structures? Did metabolism spark the whole shebang? And what about the lipids?
No matter what school of abiogenesis you hail from, the production of these various classes of organic molecules requires a process called phosphorylation – getting a group of three oxygens and a phosphorus to attach to other molecules.
Nobody has provided strong evidence in support of any particular agent that might have been responsible for making this happen to prebiotic compounds. Until now.
"We suggest a phosphorylation chemistry that could have given rise, all in the same place, to oligonucleotides, oligopeptides, and the cell-like structures to enclose them," says researcher Ramanarayanan Krishnamurthy.
Enter diamidophosphate (DAP).
Combined with imidazole acting as a catalyst, DAP could have bridged the critical gap from early compounds such as uridine and cytidine. That might not seem overly exciting, but phosphorylating nucleosides like these is a crucial step on the road to building the chains of RNA that could serve as the first primitive genes.
From: Scientists Just Found a Vital Missing Link in The Origins of Life on Earth
Scientists Just Found a Vital Missing Link in The Origins of Life on Earth
Meet diamidophosphate.
MIKE MCRAE
7 NOV 2017
Carbon might be the backbone of organic chemistry, but life on Earth wouldn't be what it is today if it weren't for another critical member of the periodic table – phosphorus.
Transforming run of the mill hydrocarbons into the kinds of molecules that include this important element is a giant evolutionary leap, chemically speaking. But now scientists think they know how such a vital step was accomplished.
Researchers from The Scripps Research Institute in California have identified a molecule capable of performing phosphorylation in water, making it a solid candidate for what has until now been a missing link in the chain from lifeless soup to evolving cells.
In the classic chicken and egg conundrum of biology's origins, debate continues to rage over which process kicked off others in order to get to life. Was RNA was followed by protein structures? Did metabolism spark the whole shebang? And what about the lipids?
No matter what school of abiogenesis you hail from, the production of these various classes of organic molecules requires a process called phosphorylation – getting a group of three oxygens and a phosphorus to attach to other molecules.
Nobody has provided strong evidence in support of any particular agent that might have been responsible for making this happen to prebiotic compounds. Until now.
"We suggest a phosphorylation chemistry that could have given rise, all in the same place, to oligonucleotides, oligopeptides, and the cell-like structures to enclose them," says researcher Ramanarayanan Krishnamurthy.
Enter diamidophosphate (DAP).
Combined with imidazole acting as a catalyst, DAP could have bridged the critical gap from early compounds such as uridine and cytidine. That might not seem overly exciting, but phosphorylating nucleosides like these is a crucial step on the road to building the chains of RNA that could serve as the first primitive genes.
siti
Well-Known Member
Of course it is popular journalism - its called a "headline" - its meant to grab your attention. But in any case, a spark is not a fire - and RNA seems a reasonable candidate for the chemistry necessary as a precursor ("spark") to "life". That idea is not hyperbole even if the headline is. It is a perfectly reasonable idea (and some posters have already commented on why the RNA-world hypothesis is reasonable). Of course we don't know that that is what happened - but we are getting closer to knowing that it is something that could have happened. Clearly there is a lot more to it than just the genesis of the first RNA molecule, but there is also a lot more to a forest fire than the carelessly discarded cigarette butt that started it. But that doesn't mean that knowing what started it isn't incredibly useful and illuminating information.
Well. I have said what had to be. No one has demonstrated that RNA is first life or spark of life. I would declare "A key chemical component of living systems synthesised in laboratory".
Hyperbole such as "Life's First Spark re-created in laboratory" is not scientific, IMO, since we actually do not know what life is. If we knew we would have recreated life itself. I will stop here. Thanks for your response and for patience.
Last edited:
Your still conflating intelligence and consciousness evoking a religious agenda and not responding coherently to the science issues of abiogenesis.
Your frog hair picking over a the title and not addressing the science behind the articel.
siti
Well-Known Member
Science is not a matter of O (Y or M) but it most certainly is a matter of nucleotide chemistry as far as we can possibly tell.
siti
Well-Known Member
OK - so who created the super-super-sophisticated aliens who are required to create the super-sophisticated terrestrial lifeforms...and who created the super-super-super-sophisticated creatures who would have been required to create the aliens who created humans...etc.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
That would have been me. It was one neck of a weekend.
siti
Well-Known Member
Seriously? I was imagining it would have to be someone even older than you. I do have a a bit of wild imagination though.
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Wormholes are one way around the space/time continuum. Tequila is another.