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Featured Science and the Bible

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by CLee421, Jun 24, 2018.

  1. CLee421

    CLee421 Bible believing-Face painting-Musical Momma

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    'THE BIBLE AND SCIENCE DON'T COINCIDE!'
    Below are some reasons why I disagree with the statement above :)

    Share thoughts - be kind.

    EARTH'S SPHERICAL SHAPE
    (Isaiah 40:22)“It is He who sits above the circle of the earth”

    Discovery Claim: Pythagorus proposed that the Earth was round sometime around 500 B.C. though it was not accepted as a possibility until much later, and not confirmed until even later.

    [​IMG] The verse in Isaiah was written: between 740-680 B.C. - about 240-180 years before the Greek had the thought, and declared it with boldness before anyone else was sure for centuries. Also, the translation of the Hebrew word used to describe the earth in this verse of Job ("chuwg") means, "to be made spherical" - our translations use the word 'circle' here. I underline 'made' to enhance the Hebrew emphasis on Creator God...who made it that way.)

    ----

    HYDROLOGIC CYCLE
    (Ecclesiastes 1:7)“All the rivers run into the sea,Yet the sea is not full; To the place from which the rivers come, There they return again.”

    [​IMG](Job 36:27-29)"For He draws up drops of water, Which distill as rain from the mist, Which the clouds drop down And pour abundantly on man. Indeed, can anyone understand the spreading of clouds, The thunder from His canopy?"
    Discovery Claim: 16TH Century (1501 to 1600)

    This verse was written: (Ecc) between the years 971 and 931 B.C. (Job) between 1900 and 1700 B.C. --- both thousands of years prior to our understanding of this process.


    ----

    [​IMG]
    ELEMENTAL PARTICLES
    Everything we see, is made up of things we can not see (particles).

    "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." (Hebrews 11:3 - written about 65 AD ... the elemental particles were not discovered until the 19th century (1800s) - this biblical declaration was made about 1700 years before it was realized.)

    "God spoke" is how the Bible describes the universe coming into existence, a simple explanation to humans how Almighty God creates - He speaks, it is so. Energy was produced from the "sound" of God's "voice", we know sound creates waves (sound waves, hence sound particles) eventually these sound waves become light, on terms of a scale (below) interestingly enough the first WORDS God spoke were indeed, "Let there be LIGHT" ... both light and sound need time and distance to travel, in the first lines of Genesis, we can see the basic math of the physical universe come into existence. Any other theory would simply imply that something came from nothing, which is a scientific impossibility...without God. And His Word.


    [​IMG]


    ----

    IMPORTANCE OF BLOOD IN LIFE PROCESSES
    (Leviticus 17:13-14)“who hunts and catches any animal or bird that may be eaten, he shall pour out its blood and cover it with dust; for it is the life of all flesh. Its blood sustains its life. Therefore I said to the children of Israel, ‘You shall not eat the blood of any flesh, for the life of all flesh is its blood.”

    [​IMG]

    Discovery Claim: Late 19th century is when I have found more information was obtained as far as disease processes and the importance of blood, because: Until the late 19th century (1850-1900) bloodletting was a common practice in the medical field, intended to cure ailments of many kinds. In the majority of cases, the use of bloodletting was harmful to patients. Had they known "blood sustains life" as the Bible says (thousands of years before the practice of bloodletting was ceased) maybe some people might not have died from bloodletting - like our first president, George Washington.

    This verse was written: between 1440 and 1400 B.C. --- over 3,000 years before we "knew" it.

    ----
    ATMOSPHERIC CIRCULATION
    (Ecclesiastes 1:6)“The wind goes toward the south,And turns around to the north;The wind whirls about continually,And comes again on its circuit.”


    [​IMG]

    Discovery Claim: meteorologist William Ferrell discovered them in 1856.

    This verse was written: between the years 971 and 931 B.C. --- nearly 3,000 years before Mr. Ferrell's uncovering of the wind patterns.


    ----


    GRAVITATIONAL FIELD
    (Job 26:7)“He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing.”
    Discovery Claim: Sir Isaac Newton, in 1650
    This verse was written: between 1900 to 1700 B.C. (many scholars agree that Job is the oldest book in the Bible) so this was about 3500-4000 years prior to Sir Newton's apple.
    For those who question why this verse represents the gravitational field, think about it - prior to the discovery of the gravitational field, theories formulated in regards to what held the earth up were not as definite as the Bible's explanation: "He hangs the earth on nothing" (which, obviously, is true - the earth IS on nothing) and Job was written thousands of years before this discovery.
    [​IMG]


    Other theories include: Atlas - the Greeks believed the earth was held up by Atlas,

    he held the earth on his shoulders. Hindu scriptures say a few different things


    but here is a quick summary of their beliefs regarding what 'held the earth up':



    [​IMG]"Arya (Indo-Aryan) texts repeatedly affirm that the Earth is supported by a serpent. The earths are seven in number, like 7 covers one above the other, the upper one is divided into 7 regions [ al-B. i.228 ]. There exists a serpent, Seshakhya, under the 7th lowest Earth, it has 1000 heads, so it feels no pain and bears the earths one above the other [ al-B. i.237 ]. Other texts say that the Earth is supported on a giant tortoise. Still others hold that this tortoise is in turn on top of a giant snake [ Kovoor 158 ]. Some other texts claim the Earth is held by 4 pillars, held by an elephant seated on a big tortoise [ Panda 69 ]. According to Balabhadra, the earth is in the midst of water, the lower part is immersed in water and the part above the water is round like the back of a tortoise [ al-B i.273 ]." (source:Create Websites with our Website Builder - Yahoo Small Business) ____________________________________________________________________

    As we can see, the Bible had all these facts straight long before anything or anyone else ;)
     
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  2. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Misinterpreting the verses of the Bible harms your cause. For example if you look at Isaiah 40 22 in context and use the original Hebrew it is talking about a flat circular Earth. "Round" does not necessarily mean "spherical". The Bible only describes the Earth as being flat in both word and deed. It never refers to a spherical Earth and that is one reason that Flat Earth beliefs have had a recent uptick. Your other examples all appear to be be reinterpretion after the event or common knowledge at best. When it comes to actual science the Bible is wrong more often than not.
     
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  3. CLee421

    CLee421 Bible believing-Face painting-Musical Momma

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    The word we translate as "round" or "circle" there literally translates : "to be made spherical" ... I spend a good amount of time looking at the Hebrew language and translations.

    It's not a reinterpretation - I only listed the recent references to compare dates. Thanks for your input.
     
  4. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    If you looked at the actual word used it translates as "an inscribed circle". That is one made with a compass. It can only be flat. The same writer also used the word "ball" elsewhere in the Isaiah. If one wanted to portray a spherical Earth that would have been a much better choice. To claim that your verse supports a spherical Earth is simply not justified.
     
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  5. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    I stopped reading at the verse referring to the "circle" of the earth. A circle is flat, and as you said the earth is a sphere (or ellipsoid to be precise). So, the verse describing the earth as a circle is obviously erroneous.
     
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  6. CLee421

    CLee421 Bible believing-Face painting-Musical Momma

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    The word/its root is also used to describe how he draws up the waters - meaning the general shape is described as well as the creation of boundaries - the reason the word "ball" isn't used is because of the nature of the word. It was MADE (to draw a circle, to encompass. Also refers to the "circuit" which goes It's a masculine noun as WELL as a verb. The point is the shape is still correct and the word implies God made it that way. The word is used 3 times and is understood to be referencing an "encompassing sphere or circuit" ... the "ball" reference you made was also simply a ball of wood to be burned, and the verse is basically negative in context.
     
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  7. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Links please. I do not accept empty claims. By the way, "circuit" gets you back to a flat Earth.

    And just because a verse is negative does not mean that a word used in it is negative. I have never heard that claim from anyone else as an excuse yet.
     
  8. CLee421

    CLee421 Bible believing-Face painting-Musical Momma

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    The circuits of the wind go all the way around the earth so no - just because you think of I guess a racetrack does not mean that's what this references. You can't just pick one term and use it for the Hebrew language. One word in Hebrew has a multifaceted meaning. You clearly know that but are trying to pin one down. Have fun justifying yourselves though.

    I am not here to appease you. At this point I will probably ignore you demanding links from me. So childish.

    The burden of proof exists in court cases or real working relationship situations but this is a forum. I said no thanks. I can tell it would be a complete waste of energy.
     
  9. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    The burden of proof also exists in debates. Please don't accuse others of your bad behavior. All you need to do is to support your claims with valid links. If you demand the same of me I will gladly comply.
     
  10. CLee421

    CLee421 Bible believing-Face painting-Musical Momma

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  11. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Pretty weak source, but at least you supplied one. And it contradicts itself besides. It admits that the word used translates as referring to a flat object, even though it does not appear to realize it:

    "Khoog which is translated circle, circuit, compass is the closest."

    A compass only draws a flat circle. The rest was mere grasping at straws. Even there best source does not support their claim of being night and day at the same time. In fact it says "in that night" to assume that the men in the field were in there during the daytime is an unwarranted assumption.

    Bible Gateway passage: Luke 17:34-36 - King James Version

    "
    34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

    35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

    36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

    It would equally apply if two men were walking through a field at night. People tend to sleep only eight hours a day. That means even with a twelve hour night that there are four hours of darkness when one could be "in the field".
     
  12. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    Let's see, He who sits above the circle of the Earth.......

    Same could be said for somebody looking down at a table top. I mean it describes a Viewpoint from above. Right? How in the world could someone ever tell if it was spherical if you're just above it?

    *********

    All the rivers run into the sea,Yet the sea is not full; To the place from which the rivers come, There they return again.”

    Let's see.....

    Do all the rivers run into the sea? I don't think so. How is the sea determined to be full or not? The tide? Ahhh....

    Maybe when the tide comes in and the sea withdrawals when the tide goes out, they might think it just goes back into the rivers somehow.

    ********

    Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

    Let's see.....

    Could it be people simply saw things as "proof" "presto" magic appearances. After all we're talking about a God here.

    Could it be the " word" is an incantation, spell, or mystikal chant?

    And how in the world does sound fit in? There's no sound in the vacuum of space.

    ********

    ..who hunts and catches any animal or bird that may be eaten, he shall pour out its blood and cover it with dust; for it is the life of all flesh. Its blood sustains its life. Therefore I said to the children of Israel, ‘You shall not eat the blood of any flesh, for the life of all flesh is its blood.”

    Let's see.....

    Slice an animal's throat, blood flows out, the animal dies. Doesn't take a surgeon or doctor for people to realize that blood is essential to keep you alive and sustain it as such.

    *********

    The wind goes toward the south,And turns around to the north;The wind whirls about continually,And comes again on its circuit.

    Let's see.....

    It's the wind everybody feels it blow this way and that. I'm sure ancient people knew what trade winds were once Boats were invented. Don't know what's so special or spectacular about that.

    **********

    He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing.”


    Let's see. .....

    Stretches out the North like a cover, tent, or tarp?

    If God hangs the Earth on nothing, then it must be sitting on four pillars as mentioned later on.

    *********


    All I can say is I guess "facts" lay in the mind of the beholder. !0)

    Anyways the Bible is not a very impressive book in regards to anything scientific, much less comparing it to later scientific discoveries soley on a basis it seems to make a creative "fit" when it clearly doesn't given the context by which it's written.
     
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  13. CLee421

    CLee421 Bible believing-Face painting-Musical Momma

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    There's not a Hebrew word for sphere. That doesn't mean they didn't know spheres existed. I would love to figure out what old Jewish texts say on this.
     
  14. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Galileo Galilei is rolling in his grave.

    I mean.. he was martyred by the Vatican for saying the Bible is not science
     
    #14 Estro Felino, Jun 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  15. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Like those on this site that want to justify their scripture as in harmony with science step into the minefield of interpretation and stretching interpretations to fit science.

    It is very much apparent that Creation in Genesis is close to the Aristotle's view of the universe and over the millennia suffered from many interpretations. Yes, Aristotle considered the earth as round, but the center of the universe. You are faced with these many diverse interpretations over the time in conflict with science.

    I do not believe that we can make it work that the Bible is in harmony with science. The Bible is indeed an ancient world view and the nature of the description of Creation is indeed an ancient world view. It is best just to keep the Biblical and the Quran view of Creation separate from science.
     
    #15 shunyadragon, Jun 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
  16. CLee421

    CLee421 Bible believing-Face painting-Musical Momma

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    "All the rivers" is used in our translation. The Hebrew has one word for that whole statement, meaning rivers brooks etc. yet, despite that - Most do anyway.

    My point with sound is it requires time and distance / space to travel. Basic physics are outlined in the first account of creation. Saying there's no sound in the vacuum of space would not apply to a Being outside what we know as space, Who is creating it. The point is in this ancient book a creation story that makes sense exists. He's not growing offspring in His legs or crying tears that cause the world to spring up and so on.

    You can joke about blood being obvious but doctors for a long time just just let it pour out of people not realizing that was a bad thing. That was a simple point there. You do more than make an animal bleed when you slit it's throat or injure it.

    The winds being referred to as a precise thing - as in they go around in patterns. You again mockingly trying to find ways to discredit when yes you can feel wind going "this way or that" but knowing it's on a "track" was clearly unique.

    No response for me on " He hangs the earth on nothing" ...
     
  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    But there was a Hebrew word for ball. Why wasn't that used?
     
  18. CLee421

    CLee421 Bible believing-Face painting-Musical Momma

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    The word just doesn't work. It is used only 3 times also - once for ball - once for burn - and once for roundabout (to surround)
     
  19. CLee421

    CLee421 Bible believing-Face painting-Musical Momma

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    It's like, a roundish pile of firewood. Not really a ball you'd bounce or hold.
     
  20. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Source for this claim please.
     
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