You can't give me a proper example of when "good guys with guns" ever prevented "bad guys with guns" to do what they were doing.
I'm sure it happened a couple of times. Which pales in comparison to the total amount of incidents
The recent Tennessee shooter was stopped by good guys with guns.
This is the irony... The only reason why every bum in every gang has a gun, is because the private civilian market in the US is overflooded with guns.
In the US, you can literally break into a house to rob it and walk out with enough weaponry to arm a small militia.
The result is that every bum and their mothers can have guns without any problems at all.
It's the only reason why every low-life criminal or wonnabe has easy access to pretty much any type of gun.
Most Americans do not own a gun. Most households do not have guns in them. Most of the people who do are not bums or any other derogatory name you want to call them.
Right, because arming even more people is always a good idea to reduce gun violence.
PS: the guns in Nashville = all legally obtained.
That is not exactly what I said. How about we just use police officers in schools, full time. 2 per school until we remove the guns from the country. That is about $20b per year. How is this a bad idea until we no longer need them.
Without such easy access to guns, there wouldn't have been a shootout in the first place.
This is what you don't seem to be getting at all.
The answer here is LESS GUNS, not EVEN MORE GUNS.
I agree. How do you transition from 400 million guns to almost none? In the mean time do you support police officers in each school?
The same way you try to keep other illegal things out of the country.
The US does not do a good job of keeping anything out of the country at this time.
Criminals don't make their own guns. Large corporations like FN Herstal make guns.
Criminals buy the guns those corporations make.
I agree. The gun is not the problem. No gun ever hurt anyone without a conscious act behind it.
I already explained it to you, but it seems to be falling on deaf ears.
Getting guns into the country is only step one. They still need to be stored somewhere and distributed to dealers, who need to store them as well and then sell them to customers.
I already explained to you the logistical difference with drugs.
A pack of cocaine that you can even simply stuff in your pants can serve upto 100 customers.
You literally need trucks to serve the same amount of people with guns.
A black market for guns is literally a giant enterprise. One that would demand insane amounts of resources (money, private warehouses, trucks, perhaps boats or planes - preferably including private peers and airfields, drivers, pilots, smugglers, dealers,...).
With drugs, you can piggy back on legit commercial transportation. You can hide a couple kgs of coke between the banana's. You can't exactly hide 100 AR15s between commercial goods being shipped with legit transport. The weight alone will already lead to getting caught.
So the entire thing needs to be privately set up. Ask yourself what such would do with the price. Then multiple that a couple more times because of the "black" part in "black market".
And then we haven't even talked about where the organizers of this giant enterprise would even get their guns to smuggle in..........
Where are THEY going to buy them? We are talking about, in your opinion, enormous amounts of guns that leave the factory and end up on the black market instead of in legit dealerships.
No, I said I disagreed and gave you my reasons why I disagreed. That is the opposite of not listening.
Having said all that, why doesn't such a market and operation exist in Belgium?
The FN Herstal factory even is right here in Belgium, near Liege.
Our border control is actually non-existent. It's Europe. Our border is just a sign saying "welcome to belgium". If someone knocks it down, you wouldn't even know you entered another country.
I see currently there are 12 million people in Belgium. The US has 30 times the people. A bigger market.
Indeed it does.
Just run the numbers. Who does the most killings in the US?
Professional gangsters with (il)legal guns?
Or the citizens with mostly legally purchased guns who go on killing spree rampages in schools, malls, churches, bars,... etc?
Not sure what a professional gangster is. The data is hard to come by. Do you have any? Looks like most murders are done by people that legally are not allowed to have one.
How many members of the mafia are you aware about that did such mass shootings?
Drug dealers?
Bank robbers?
Where is this data?
Take the Nashville shooter. Do you think she would have had those guns if she wouldn't be able to just go buy them legally?
Do you think she could have done what she did if she lived in Belgium?
Be honest now.
Probably not. But now you are blaming the gun not the shooter. So what is your solution in the mean time between the current situation and making guns rare?
It's because we handle guns like that, that we don't have the gun violence problems that you folks have.
And yet, anyone who really wants to play with guns, can do so with proper permits, in places specifically for that purpose, with strict rules and regulations concerning how to handle the gun and how, and where, to store it.
I mostly agree. Do you think a country with 12M vs 350M people may work differently and be harder to strictly regulate guns? The reality is in the US getting to the place Belgium is will take time, political will etc. In the mean time we need a better plan to keep people safe. I rarely hear of gun control advocates talking about changing the constitution, which is the only way forward for their agenda of heavily restricting guns.
www.aclu-wa.org
