Saved by Faith alone Christians: The Rapture will occur when?

[Terrywoodenpic]

I do not believe in the rapture, can you convince me that I should?

 

[slabbey06]

Pray it's soon for you all! :angel2:

Not a day goes by that I don't hope it's soon!

 

[slabbey06]

I don't hold to a particular stance on the Rapture. Because, quite honestly, as long as you are walking with the Lord, and expecting His appearing, it shouldn't really matter.

You are not alone in thinking this. I would guess that the majority of Believers today think the same way. However, I don't agree for a number of reasons...

Christ returning for the Church is a major theme throughout the New Testament (John 14:1-3; Titus 2:13; Phil. 3:20; 1 Cor. 1:7; 15:51-53; 1 John 3:1-3; 1 Thess. 4:13-18; etc). If it's important enough for God to have emphasized over and over again, I think it should be a doctrine that matters deeply to us, one that we study and look into.

There are a couple different views on when the Rapture will take place (5 I think). We are commanded to accurately handle the word of truth (1 Tim. 2:15). This means we have the responsibility, and the privilege, of searching the Scriptures to discern, by the power of the Holy Spirit, which view is accurate and fits in the context of the whole Bible. What one believes about the Rapture doesn't just effect how one interprets "Rapture" passages. It effect how one interprets other extremely significant portions of the Bible. For example, is God done with Israel? Is the Church spiritual Israel? Are we in the Tribulation now? Is Revelation literal, allegorical, something that already happened? Can believers experience God's wrath? Will Christ really reign for 1000 years, or is He reigning now spiritually? All these questions in some way or another are effected by the stance one takes on when the Rapture will occur. And what we believe about all these questions will effect how we live our lives.

 

[Hope]

You are not alone in thinking this. I would guess that the majority of Believers today think the same way. However, I don't agree for a number of reasons...

Christ returning for the Church is a major theme throughout the New Testament (John 14:1-3; Titus 2:13; Phil. 3:20; 1 Cor. 1:7; 15:51-53; 1 John 3:1-3; 1 Thess. 4:13-18; etc). If it's important enough for God to have emphasized over and over again, I think it should be a doctrine that matters deeply to us, one that we study and look into.

There are a couple different views on when the Rapture will take place (5 I think). We are commanded to accurately handle the word of truth (1 Tim. 2:15). This means we have the responsibility, and the privilege, of searching the Scriptures to discern, by the power of the Holy Spirit, which view is accurate and fits in the context of the whole Bible. What one believes about the Rapture doesn't just effect how one interprets "Rapture" passages. It effect how one interprets other extremely significant portions of the Bible. For example, is God done with Israel? Is the Church spiritual Israel? Are we in the Tribulation now? Is Revelation literal, allegorical, something that already happened? Can believers experience God's wrath? Will Christ really reign for 1000 years, or is He reigning now spiritually? All these questions in some way or another are effected by the stance one takes on when the Rapture will occur. And what we believe about all these questions will effect how we live our lives.

I agree that the rapture is certainly very important. And you are absolutely right. We should study about it, and be discerning, especially in these last days. I think one of the major problems with the church these days is lack of discernment. I could go into another whole tangent on that topic.

However, all that said, the very fact that so many interpretations of the timing of the rapture exist is because the Scriptures are not explicit in this regard. It is definitely a major theme, no doubt, but not one that should be divisive to the church. Because that's mainly what I see. A little camp over here, saying this is how it is, we've got it right, then another camp over here saying, no, you're wrong, this is how it is, etc., etc. And that's distracting us from where our focus should be---simply on Christ.

I've read Revelations several times, and the other Scriptures you pointed out, and have heard various viewpoints, and still haven't come away with the conviction that we can be absolutely certain when the rapture will occur. And I'm always a little bit skittish around folk who think they've got everything down pat about portions of Scripture that aren't explicit. Sometimes people get carried away, and start claiming they know the day and hour of Christ's coming (when Christ Himself said He didn't know), they know who the Anti-Christ is, and all this other stuff that the Bible does not explicitly say. We definitely need to be aware, to be watchful of the signs of the times, to be constantly grounded in His Word, and to look for His appearing, but I think holding too tightly to beliefs about things the Bible is not absolutely clear on can possibly do us more harm than good. Because what if it turns out you are wrong about the timing of the rapture? That could greatly affect your life as well! This is why I hold it lightly. I say ok, Lord, only You know for sure. I'll just keep my eyes on You, keep walking close beside you, and Your Holy Spirit will give me discernment and wisdom at the proper time.

I hope this helps explain why I feel the way I do. But I totally respect the opinions of yourself and others who hold to a certain stance. Who knows? You may be right.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Hmmm... Tim LaHaye has some good ones: "Charting the End Times" has lots of colorful illustrations, charts, time-lines etc. real easy to grasp, good for young people, too. His "Revelation Unveiled" is good. Although some find him contorversial, Hal Lindsey wrote a very good one covering many views of the Rapture, etc. and argued well for a pre-trib Rapture in "Vanished Into Thin Air". Those are more 'popular' authors, I have some others, some smaller ones, and there are better books than those I mentioned I'm sure that go even deeper.

Excellent book! Has any of you read the "Left Behind" series by Tim Lahaye and Larry B. Jenkins? The one point I learned was that you can still see heaven even if you miss the rapture.

I believe in the pre-trib theory as well, but could see how the mid-trib way of thinking could happen and would play into the no one knows the hour scripture. The reason I am not a post-tribber is because the whole point of the rapture is to spare the saved person from the 21 judgements that would torment any inhabitant of the earth.

I have to tell you that I fantasize about bringing souls to Christ during that period how ever. It would be so much fun to be able to show folks where the last disaster was predicted and warn them about what is about to happen next.

How many, "I told you so's" would it take before people would finally believe?

 

[*Paul*]

I do not believe in the rapture, can you convince me that I should?

If you believe the words of scripture then you have no reason not to believe in a rapture. It is there as plain as daylight. It is the event when those who are alive at the Lords coming shall be caught up (raptured/ snatched away / harpooned) to meet the Lord in the air, (1 thess 4v14-18) this event is immediatly preceeded by the ressurection of those who are "dead in Christ" to receive their ressurection bodies. This is not to be confused with the general ressurection and great white throne judgement in revelation as that is for all those who are dead (rev 20:11). The ressurection of the dead in Thessalonians and the catching up with them of the living is for those who are in Christ at that time.

Our mortal bodies will not be cast off and left to the dust at this time but will be clothed upon with immortality (2 corinthians 5 2-4) and we shall be like Him(1 John 3:2) our bodies fashioned like unto His glorious ressurection body (phil 3:21).

This event is His appearing - His coming for His bride not to be confused with the second advent when He comes to rule the world with a rod of Iron and the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the Lord.

 

[joeboonda]

I just want to say the last several posts have been very good! Slabbey, Hope, Rick, Paul, etc. very good!

Terry, most people do not question whether there will BE a rapture, but more of WHEN it occurs, i.e. before the Tribulation, in the middle, or at the end...and etc. Jesus clearly said He was going to prepare a place for us and that if He did so, He would return to take us there that where He is we may be also. Paul said we will not all die, but the Lord will come back with those who have already died and in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye their bodies will rise and be transformed, then we shall be transformed and all meet Him in the air and will ever be with the Lord. He said to comfort each other with these words. It is what we call the blessed hope of every believer, that we all will not taste death, and that the church will be spared from the hour of wrath or testing (the Tribulation) that is to come upon the whole earth.

While we do not know the day nor hour, we know it is imminent. Jesus said when the fig tree begins to bud, the fig tree being symbolic of Israel, "look up, for your redemption draweth nigh." He and others predicted Israel would be scattered again, which happened in 70 A.D., but that a remnant would remain and they would be a nation again in one day. This happened May 14th, 1948. Since then they have been a leading producer of fruit and flowers, the land budding where it had been desolate for almost 2,000 years, another very precise fulfillment of prophecy. We believe, as we see people travel to and fro like never before, i.e. jumbo jets, automobiles, etc., and knowledge increasing exponentialy, i.e. the web, the information superhighway, as Daniel predicted, that we are living in very close to the last days before the Great Seven Year Tribulation and all the end time events. It is both comforting and sobering, but it is quite scriptural and we can be certain no matter where we place the order of events, Jesus is indeed coming again, haleluia, amen!

 

[rocka21]

I hold to a pre millenial view of the second coming and a pre tribulational interpretation of the Lords appearing to us and our being snatched away to be with Him (the rapture) When do you believe the rapture will occur in relation to the tribulation? (If at all)

Pre- trib rapture.:yes:


going on the first load!

 

[Reverend Rick]

And when Christ's word has been heard everywhere in the world to all people, he will return.

With today's technology, we are not far from fulfilling this.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I just want to say the last several posts have been very good! Slabbey, Hope, Rick, Paul, etc. very good!

Terry, most people do not question whether there will BE a rapture, but more of WHEN it occurs, i.e. before the Tribulation, in the middle, or at the end...and etc.

Joboonda and Paul Thanks for your posts.
for my understanding and faith... things I read in the Bible must not only have a consistency of thought with Christ's teachings of a God of Love; but also have a logical development from this. I simply do not see this in the "Rapture"

Most people in the Anglican faith Do not even speak about the rapture: nor have I ever heard anything taught about it in any of our churched during the past nearly 70 odd years.
I have never met any one, to my knowledge, who believes in it .
I am not saying no one believes it, but it is certainly not main stream belief here.

 

[joeboonda]

Joboonda and Paul Thanks for your posts.
for my understanding and faith... things I read in the Bible must not only have a consistency of thought with Christ's teachings of a God of Love; but also have a logical development from this. I simply do not see this in the "Rapture"

Most people in the Anglican faith Do not even speak about the rapture: nor have I ever heard anything taught about it in any of our churched during the past nearly 70 odd years.
I have never met any one, to my knowledge, who believes in it .
I am not saying no one believes it, but it is certainly not main stream belief here.

Thanks, Terry. The Rapture is referred to in the Bible as a mystery, not that it was like, oooh so mysterious, but that it was something that had been hid, not revealed to anyone before, but was now being revealed to the Church. The doctrine is not so new as people think and in the writings of some of the early church fathers the idea is put forth. One of those is a manuscript by Ephraem of Nisibis (306-73) who is considered the greatest figure in the history of the Syrian church, called "Pseudo-Ephraem." You may be able to Google it, I don't know. Let me show some of the scripture from whence the doctrine comes: (there are more, but these are the main ones)

I Cor. 15

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep (die), but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

I Thess. 4

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep (dead), that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (go before)them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (Rapture comes from this phrase in Latin) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

John 14

1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

[joeboonda]

Here is an interesting article that may help, showing some of the differences between the Rapture and the Second Coming, although it does not show all of them there are 15-16 differences:

What is the difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming?




Question: "What is the difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming?"

Answer: The Rapture and the Second Coming of Christ are often confused. Sometimes it is difficult to determine whether a Scripture is referring to the Rapture or the Second Coming. However, in studying end times Bible prophesy, it is very important to differentiate between the two.

The Rapture is when Jesus Christ returns to remove the church (all believers in Christ) from the earth. The Rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. Believers who have died will have their bodies resurrected, and along with believers who are still living will meet the Lord in the air. This will all occur in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye. The Second Coming is when Jesus returns to defeat the antichrist, destroy evil, and establish His Millennial Kingdom. The Second Coming is described in Revelation 19:11-16.

The important differences between the Rapture and Second Coming are as follows:
(1) At the Rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the Second Coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14).
(2) The Second Coming occurs after the great and terrible Tribulation (Revelation chapters 6-19). The Rapture occurs before the Tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).
(3) The Rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17; 5:9). The Second Coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment (Matthew 24:40-41).
(4) The Rapture will be “secret” and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The Second Coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30).
(5) The Second Coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end times events take place (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6-18). The Rapture is imminent, it could take place at any moment (Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54).

Why is it important to keep the Rapture and the Second Coming distinct?
(1) If the Rapture and the Second Coming are the same event, believers will have to go through the Tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).
(2) If the Rapture and the Second Coming are the same event, the return of Christ is not imminent…there are many things which must occur before He can return (Matthew 24:4-30).
(3) In describing the Tribulation period, Revelation chapters 6-19 nowhere mentions the church. During the Tribulation, God will again turn His primary attention on Israel (Romans 11:17-31).

The Rapture and Second Coming are similar but separate events. Both involve Jesus returning. Both are end times events. However, it is crucially important to recognize the differences. In summary, the Rapture is the return of Christ to the clouds to remove all believers from the earth before the time of God’s wrath. The Second Coming is the return of Christ to the earth to bring the Tribulation to an end and to defeat the antichrist and his evil world empire.

Recommended Resource: The Rapture: Who Will Face the Tribulation by Tim LaHaye.

Related Topics:​

When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?​

What is going to happen according to end times prophecy?​

What is the Rapture of the church?​

What is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ?​

What are the signs of the end times?​

Return to:​

Questions about the End Times​

Return to:​

GotQuestions.org Home​

 

[joeboonda]

Okay, here I found a chart with 15 differences, I had to mess with it a bit, but got it to work well enough:

The Rapture Vs. The Second Coming

The Rapture and the 2nd Coming of Christ are not the same events. The Rapture is when Jesus comes in the air for His Church, but His feet will not touch earth. The 2nd Coming is when Jesus comes back to earth and His feet stand on the Mount of Olives.


7 years of Tribulation
In the Old Testament, there were 2 different pictures painted of the Messiah—one suffering (Isa. 53:2-10, Ps. 22:6-8, 11-18) and one reigning as King (Ps. 2:6-12, Zech. 14:9,16). As we look back on these Scriptures, we see they predicted 2 separate comings of the Messiah—the 1st coming as a suffering Messiah and the 2nd coming (still future) as a reigning King.
In the New Testament, we have another picture added. Again, we have 2 pictures painted, and they don’t look the same. These 2 different descriptions of Jesus’ coming point to two separate events we call "The Rapture" and "The Second Coming."
Listed below are 15 differences between the Rapture and the 2nd Coming.
Rapture

2nd Coming
1

Jesus coming FOR His Church. (John 14:1-3, 1 Thess. 4:14-17)

Jesus coming WITH His Church (Col 3:4, Zech 14:5, Jude 14, Rev 19:14)
2


Caught up with Him in the air (1 Thess 4:13-18 )

Jesus' feet touch the earth (Zech 14:4, Rev:19:11-21)
3


Christians taken first, unbelievers are left behind. (1 Thess 4:13-18)

Wicked are taken first, the righteous (Tribulation saints) are left behind. (Matt 13:28-30)
4


Purpose: To present the Church to Himself and to the Father (2 Cor 11:2, Rev. 19:6-9 40)

Purpose: To execute judgment on earth and set up His Kingdom (Jude 14-15,Rev 19:11-21, Zech 14:3-4)
5


MARRIAGE: Marriage of Lamb in heaven after the RaptureWAR:

Marriage is followed by war on earth at the 2nd coming
6


Happens in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye (too fast for eyes to see) 1 Cor 15:52

Slow coming, people will see Him come back. (Zech 12:10 Matt 24:30, Rev 1:7)
7


Only Christians will see Him (1 John 3:2, 1 Cor 15:52)

Every eye will see Him (Rev. 1:7)
8


Jesus descends with a shout (for resurrection) 1 Thess 4:16

No shout mentioned (Rev. 19:11-21)
9


A resurrection takes place (1 Thess 4:13-18, 1 Cor 15:51-54)

No resurrection mentioned (Rev 1:7, 19:11-21, Zech 12:10, 14:4-5)
10


Can happen at any time (Rev 3:3, 1 Thess 5:4-6)

Occurs at end of 7 years of Tribulation (Dan 9:24-27Matt 24:29-30, 2 Thess 2:3-8)
11



No angels are sent to gather (resurrected people don't need angels to help them)

Angels sent forth to gather people together for judgment (Matt 13:39, 41, 49, 24:31, 25:31, 2 Thess 1:7-10)
12


Spirits of those dead in Christ return with Jesus to receive their resurrected bodies (1 Thess 4:14-16)

Christians return with Jesus in already resurrected bodies riding on white horses. (Rev 19:11-21)
13


Jesus does not return on a white horse

Jesus returns on a white horse (Rev 19:11)
14


For the Church only (those in Christ) 1 Thess 4:14-17

For redeemed Israel & Gentiles (Rom 11:25-27, Matt 25:31-46)
15

A message of hope and comfort (1 Thess 4:18, Titus 2:13, 1 John 3:3)
A message of judgment (Joel 3:12-16, Rev 19:11-21, Mal 4:5)

​

 

[slabbey06]

I agree that the rapture is certainly very important. And you are absolutely right. We should study about it, and be discerning, especially in these last days. I think one of the major problems with the church these days is lack of discernment. I could go into another whole tangent on that topic.

However, all that said, the very fact that so many interpretations of the timing of the rapture exist is because the Scriptures are not explicit in this regard. It is definitely a major theme, no doubt, but not one that should be divisive to the church. Because that's mainly what I see. A little camp over here, saying this is how it is, we've got it right, then another camp over here saying, no, you're wrong, this is how it is, etc., etc. And that's distracting us from where our focus should be---simply on Christ.

I've read Revelations several times, and the other Scriptures you pointed out, and have heard various viewpoints, and still haven't come away with the conviction that we can be absolutely certain when the rapture will occur. And I'm always a little bit skittish around folk who think they've got everything down pat about portions of Scripture that aren't explicit. Sometimes people get carried away, and start claiming they know the day and hour of Christ's coming (when Christ Himself said He didn't know), they know who the Anti-Christ is, and all this other stuff that the Bible does not explicitly say. We definitely need to be aware, to be watchful of the signs of the times, to be constantly grounded in His Word, and to look for His appearing, but I think holding too tightly to beliefs about things the Bible is not absolutely clear on can possibly do us more harm than good. Because what if it turns out you are wrong about the timing of the rapture? That could greatly affect your life as well! This is why I hold it lightly. I say ok, Lord, only You know for sure. I'll just keep my eyes on You, keep walking close beside you, and Your Holy Spirit will give me discernment and wisdom at the proper time.

I hope this helps explain why I feel the way I do. But I totally respect the opinions of yourself and others who hold to a certain stance. Who knows? You may be right.

I completely agree that this shouldn't be something that is divisive in the church. We have enough to deal with as it is. There are many Believers who do not hold the the Rapture view I do who I greatly admire and learn from.
You mentioned the Scriptures not being explicit in regards to the Rapture. This is very interesting to me and something I'm trying to think through. Is there really ever a time the Bible isn't explicit on anything, or is it that my sin distorted mind is unable to grasp what's being said? God is the creator of communication, order, and clarity. As His child/servant, He's commanded me to obey Him and serve Him, and He's given me His Word which is everything I need for life and godliness (2 Peter 1:3). It seems to me that in light of all of this, He wouldn't be vague with me in His Word, but would communicate His truth clearly and so that I understand. So are there different views on different aspects of the Bible because it's unclear or not explicit, or are there different views because sin has distorted our minds?
My thought process has wandered a bit from the Rapture, but I thought I'd share.

 

[Free4all]

Yes, Pre-millennial all the way.......

The very structure of the new testament demands that Christ shall return BEFORE the millennium. Here are a few:

1. When Christ comes He will RAISE THE DEAD, but the righteous dead are to be raised BEFORE the millennium, that they may reign with Christ during the 1000 yrs. hence, there can be no millennium before Christ returns. Rev 20:5

2. When Christ comes he will separate the "tares" from the "wheat", but as the millennium is a period of Universal Righteousness the separation of the tares and wheat must take place BEFORE the millennium. There can be no millennium before Christ returns. Matt 13:40-43

3. When Christ comes Satan "Shall be bound", but as Satan is to be bound during the millennium, there can be no millennium before Christ returns. Rev 20:1-3

4. When Christ comes Antichrist is to be destroyed, but as Antichrist is to be destroyed before the millennium, there can be no millennium before Christ returns. 2Thess 2:8, Rev 19:20

5. When Christ comes the Jews are to be RESTORED TO THEIR OWN LAND, but as they are to be restored to their own land before the millennium, There can be no millennium before Christ returns . Ez 36:24-28, Rev 1:7, Zech 12:10

 

[Sola*5]

Yes, Pre-millennial all the way.......

The very structure of the new testament demands that Christ shall return BEFORE the millennium. Here are a few:

1. When Christ comes He will RAISE THE DEAD, but the righteous dead are to be raised BEFORE the millennium, that they may reign with Christ during the 1000 yrs. hence, there can be no millennium before Christ returns. Rev 20:5

2. When Christ comes he will separate the "tares" from the "wheat", but as the millennium is a period of Universal Righteousness the separation of the tares and wheat must take place BEFORE the millennium. There can be no millennium before Christ returns. Matt 13:40-43

3. When Christ comes Satan "Shall be bound", but as Satan is to be bound during the millennium, there can be no millennium before Christ returns. Rev 20:1-3

4. When Christ comes Antichrist is to be destroyed, but as Antichrist is to be destroyed before the millennium, there can be no millennium before Christ returns. 2Thess 2:8, Rev 19:20

5. When Christ comes the Jews are to be RESTORED TO THEIR OWN LAND, but as they are to be restored to their own land before the millennium, There can be no millennium before Christ returns . Ez 36:24-28, Rev 1:7, Zech 12:10

:clap Brilliant post free 4 all, I completely agree.

 

[Hope]

I completely agree that this shouldn't be something that is divisive in the church. We have enough to deal with as it is. There are many Believers who do not hold the the Rapture view I do who I greatly admire and learn from.
You mentioned the Scriptures not being explicit in regards to the Rapture. This is very interesting to me and something I'm trying to think through. Is there really ever a time the Bible isn't explicit on anything, or is it that my sin distorted mind is unable to grasp what's being said? God is the creator of communication, order, and clarity. As His child/servant, He's commanded me to obey Him and serve Him, and He's given me His Word which is everything I need for life and godliness (2 Peter 1:3). It seems to me that in light of all of this, He wouldn't be vague with me in His Word, but would communicate His truth clearly and so that I understand. So are there different views on different aspects of the Bible because it's unclear or not explicit, or are there different views because sin has distorted our minds?
My thought process has wandered a bit from the Rapture, but I thought I'd share.

You have a good point. I could very well be blinded by sin. I'll be the first to admit I don't understand many, many things in the Scriptures. And definitely we're dependent upon the Holy Spirit to reveal anything at all to us in His Word.

I do agree that God is a God of order and clarity, but for reasons all His own, He has chosen to keep some things (not all things!) hidden from us, or somewhat of a mystery, until their proper time. For instance, God chose not to tell us about much of Jesus' earthly life. It remains a mystery to us. God chose not to be explicit about what happened between verses 1 and 2 of Genesis chapter one. We only have a smattering of information pertaining to the fall of Lucifer and his angels. And there are many more examples. God is definitely not explicit about everything. As Paul says in I Corinthians 13:

Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Until the fullness of times, until we see Christ face to face, we can only know things in part.

 

[*Paul*]

Pre- trib rapture.:yes:


going on the first load!

Glad to hear it Rocka. What a gathering it will be, just think of the people who we we see and the loved ones we have lost let alone Jesus Christ Himself, who wouldn't be exited about such a prospect?

 

[slabbey06]

You have a good point. I could very well be blinded by sin. I'll be the first to admit I don't understand many, many things in the Scriptures. And definitely we're dependent upon the Holy Spirit to reveal anything at all to us in His Word.

I do agree that God is a God of order and clarity, but for reasons all His own, He has chosen to keep some things (not all things!) hidden from us, or somewhat of a mystery, until their proper time. For instance, God chose not to tell us about much of Jesus' earthly life. It remains a mystery to us. God chose not to be explicit about what happened between verses 1 and 2 of Genesis chapter one. We only have a smattering of information pertaining to the fall of Lucifer and his angels. And there are many more examples. God is definitely not explicit about everything. As Paul says in I Corinthians 13:

Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Until the fullness of times, until we see Christ face to face, we can only know things in part.

Good points

 

[Reverend Rick]

Glad to hear it Rocka. What a gathering it will be, just think of the people who we we see and the loved ones we have lost let alone Jesus Christ Himself, who wouldn't be exited about such a prospect?

I have agreed with you all up and to this point. Where are the dead? I don't believe when we are raptured that we will see our loved ones at first.

Revelations chapter 20 talks about Satan being bound and the millennial reign.

If you are a pre-tribber you will have been in heaven for seven years before Satan is bound.

Revelation 20-4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgement was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neiher his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20-5

BUT THE REST OF THE DEAD LIVED NOT AGAIN UNTIL THE THOUSAND YEARS WERE FINISHED. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION.

The tribulation saints are the first resurrected. lets move on another thousand years....
REV.20: 12-15
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened and another book opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged every man according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.