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Saudi Arabia's Turn

esmith

Veteran Member
I can't think of one Muslim who doesn't find that horrendous and outrageous. Well, one that I know, since we all know there are nutcases in the world.

I tried reading more, but I ended up just skimming. What is your point? Do you think every Saudi supports them? I would find that hard to fathom.

Also, what do you know about Saudi Arabia, other than the atrocities committed there and the religion of the majority?


Saudi Arabia's voices of discontent - Inside Story - Al Jazeera English
I haven't watched it yet myself, but it sounds interesting.
I really haven't studied the current history as much as I would like, I have studied the past history of Saudi Arabia and found it very interesting and plan to continue. It appears that the major "voices of discontent" are from the Shia minority.(internet is having speed related problems hard to follow). I am sure that they (Shia) would like more say in running the country (they sit on the oil fields). I don't know, maybe there will be a problem in Saudi Arabia, King Abdullah appears to favor a more moderate society. It is really hard to fathom the underlying currents of Muslim politics.
 

Bismillah

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OH. Well, Syria's even less likely than Saudi Arabia, I think.
Hmm I don't think so, S.A has a higher standard of living and a tighter grip on its population.

Syria does have various minorities that could be angered given time.
 

croak

Trickster
Hmm I don't think so, S.A has a higher standard of living and a tighter grip on its population.

Syria does have various minorities that could be angered given time.
Saudi Arabia's Internet penetration is far deeper. Plus, they have faster Internet. Also, they're pro-American influence and as far as I know, don't crush any possible signs of revolt like one might crush ants.

I found this: Syria is not ready for an uprising | Ammar Abdulhamid | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk I was thinking of the Hama massacre when I mentioned crushing ants.
 

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But the Hama massacre was different in that it targeted the Alawites (sp?) was it not? Remember the seizure of the mosque and the treatment of those captured? They too were deviating and denouncing the rule of the house of Saud, I think it is instructive to look at their demise as well.

As for pro-American influence I doubt it, there were major backlashes and anger when American troops were allowed to set foot in the "land of the two holy cities". It is a very anti-West stance that is balanced by the need for a market for all that oil.

As for internet penetration I think much of that is meaningless when the country has shown its willingness to shut it off on lesser problems. That and a lack of deeply rooted anger doesn't really convince me of any possibility of revolt.
 

croak

Trickster
But the Hama massacre was different in that it targeted the Alawites (sp?) was it not? Remember the seizure of the mosque and the treatment of those captured? They too were deviating and denouncing the rule of the house of Saud, I think it is instructive to look at their demise as well.
The Alawi are the minority group in power today: the Assad family and high-ranking officials are Alawi.

Wikipedia said:
The Hama massacre (Arabic: مجزرة حماة‎) occurred in February 1982, when the Syrian army bombarded the town of Hama in order to quell a revolt by the Muslim Brotherhood. An estimated 17,000 to 40,000 people were killed, including about 1,000 soldiers,[1] and large parts of the old city were destroyed. The attack has been described as possibly being "the single deadliest act by any Arab government against its own people in the modern Middle East".
Hama massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't think Saudi Arabia has any parallel to that.

As for pro-American influence I doubt it, there were major backlashes and anger when American troops were allowed to set foot in the "land of the two holy cities". It is a very anti-West stance that is balanced by the need for a market for all that oil.
That was my point, actually. Some Saudis are not happy with American foreign policy, possibly many. Syria's practically ignored by the US except for the occasional threats and the like, so there are unlikely to be protests against American interference there.

As for internet penetration I think much of that is meaningless when the country has shown its willingness to shut it off on lesser problems. That and a lack of deeply rooted anger doesn't really convince me of any possibility of revolt.
Many Saudis have access to the Internet, which makes coordinating rallies and sharing information much easier. I don't know of much if any restrictions on what they can view. Syria, on the other hand, still has limited, and probably restricted, Internet access, which makes coordinating anything that much harder.

I think the Syrians are not at all happy with how things are. However, they would justifiably fear for their lives were they to take a cue from Tunisia and Libya. The odds of any protest actually succeeding are close to nil, anyways.

The Saudi government has already granted concessions. I think the people there would prefer to wait till King Abdullah passes away or is unfit to rule (which considering the fact that he's 87 should take less than a decade at most), at which point changing things would be much easier. Bashar Al-Assad is much younger.
 

Bismillah

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croak said:
The Alawi are the minority group in power today: the Assad family and high-ranking officials are Alawi.
My mistake, I should have clarified. I meant that the MB was targeting the Alawi, whereas the general population was in much danger.

I don't think Saudi Arabia has any parallel to that.
Not in the number of people killed, no. But in political dissidents who rebelled against the state and were later captured, their treatment was just as methodical and severe.

Grand Mosque Seizure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As I recall they flew in some French special forces troops, who converted to Islam, then used electricity to shock to death many of the rebels and then behead both the rebel leader and his compatriots in public.

That was my point, actually. Some Saudis are not happy with American foreign policy, possibly many. Syria's practically ignored by the US except for the occasional threats and the like, so there are unlikely to be protests against American interference there.
But there haven't been any major protests since the Gulf War, to my knowledge. S.A may sell America oil but I do not think the people see their leaders as "puppets". From my understanding most Saudis are content and happy with their life in the Kingdom.

Many Saudis have access to the Internet, which makes coordinating rallies and sharing information much easier. I don't know of much if any restrictions on what they can view. Syria, on the other hand, still has limited, and probably restricted, Internet access, which makes coordinating anything that much harder.
Sure, but S.A has issued blanket bans on the internet before for less reasons.

I think the Syrians are not at all happy with how things are. However, they would justifiably fear for their lives were they to take a cue from Tunisia and Libya. The odds of any protest actually succeeding are close to nil, anyways.

The majority of Syrians are able to afford adequate food and shelter, placing the country 41st* on this variable, and two thirds* of people are satisfied with their standard of living, a proportion that exceeds the global** average. The public is optimistic: an above average 34%* of people believe there are sufficient jobs available in their area, and many* Syrians believe that local economic conditions are improving.

Public attitudes towards government policy are generally positive. Further, 61%* of Syrians support the country’s efforts to address poverty, and 55%* approve of its environmental policies. The perceived level of corruption in government and business is relatively low, placing Syria 20th* on this variable. However, the rule of law remains weak, and regulation of the commercial sector is extremely poor. A high seven out of 10* Syrians trust the judicial system, and a similar proportion* believes that national elections are conducted honestly, placing the country 27th and 25th, respectively, on these variables. This is despite the fact that the country places ninth lowest for the level of political rights afforded to its citizens, and just 10%* of people report that they feel able to voice opinion to public officials. Data on public confidence in the national government and in the military were unavailable.

According to a 2009 survey, a very high 90%* of respondents were satisfied with their personal health, the seventh highest rate, globally. However, almost a quarter* reported debilitating health problems, a third* had felt worried on the previous day, and only two thirds* felt well-rested; Syria places in the bottom half of the Index on these three variables. The proportion of people who were content with the beauty of their immediate environment was also low, placing Syria 73rd* on this variable.

However, Syria places sixth*, internationally, for the very high proportion of people that feel safe walking alone at night. Data on citizens’ willingness to express political opinions were unavailable.

Despite this, an above average three quarters* of people are satisfied with their level of individual freedom of choice in their own lives. Yet, Syrians remain wary of outsiders. In 2009, only half* of people surveyed believed that their local area was welcoming to immigrants, and a similar proportion* believed the same to be true for racial and ethnic minorities; the country places 89th and 95th, respectively, on these variables.

The 2010 Legatum Prosperity Index

While Syria's situation is not good, I think many Syrians look toward it with both optimism and faith in the party.

I think the people there would prefer to wait till King Abdullah passes away or is unfit to rule (which considering the fact that he's 87 should take less than a decade at most), at which point changing things would be much easier. Bashar Al-Assad is much younger.
That is a good point, his health is not the best. Being in and out of surgeries must put a strain on society, but ultimately I do not think much would change with or without him.
 
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