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Root of All Evil - UK Television

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
Well, i guess this is just for us British - unless anyone else can get Channel 4 where you are?

So, did anyone see it last night?

For those who don't know, this was part one of a two part documentary by Richard Dawkins, in which he attacks religion as being the - you guessed it - Root of All Evil.

For those who don't know who Richard Dawkins is, he's a Professor at Oxford University (England) and a fanatical evolutionist. What i mean by fanatical is that although he knows his science, he seems to me to be as narrow minded and ignorant of alternative ideas as any religious extremist is.

Anyway, he focussed on the Abrahamic faiths, i don't know why - either he doesn't know anything about other faiths or doesn't consider them a threat to human safety - which he does consider (specifically) Christianity and Islam to be.

He made some good points, for example, the laughable religious tension in Jerusalem - and the obvious point that no atheist or evolutionist would murder innocent people to "fast track them to martyrs' heaven" < - - thats a quote from the program by the way.

It was obviously filmed in a biased manner, which is only to be expected. At one point he interviewed an Evangelical Pastor and got into a discussion/debate. The Pastor remained calm and polite throughout, Dawkins on the other hand did get quite irrate and came across arrogant - the Pastor even chastised him for being arrogant. I thought "Why has he (Dawkins) left this in the film" and i was impressed with the seemingly wise, accepting and polite attitude of the Pastor.
Later on we found out why Dawkins had left in that argument. After the official interview the Pastor came out (to the front of the church, where the film crew were packing up) and threatened Dawkins with criminal action for trespassing if he didn't leave immediately - he also wasn't quite as understanding as before, saying that Dawkins had "called his children animals". Dawkins didn't do this of course, it was a reference to his belief in evolution. Dawkins had left it in to show what he believed was the two-faced nature of the Pastor.

I'm looking forward to the final part next week.

Anyone else see it? What did you think?
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Unfortunately no, and bt the sound of it, maybe it was a good thing. We were having a last meal with my son before a quick four days in Spain before going back to Durham.
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
I haven`t seen it but would love to if anyone runs across any clips on the web.

Dawkins does come across as arrogant and I dislike his methods and alot of his grand ideas ("Brights", what was he thinking?) but you really can`t argue with his facts.

This is what I think probably set the preacher off.

I strongly agree with Dawkins position on religion in world culture even if I`m not always ready to go along with his methods.
 

Mike182

Flaming Queer
Halcyon said:
At one point he interviewed an Evangelical Pastor and got into a discussion/debate. The Pastor remained calm and polite throughout, Dawkins on the other hand did get quite irrate and came across arrogant - the Pastor even chastised him for being arrogant. I thought "Why has he (Dawkins) left this in the film" and i was impressed with the seemingly wise, accepting and polite attitude of the Pastor.
Later on we found out why Dawkins had left in that argument. After the official interview the Pastor came out (to the front of the church, where the film crew were packing up) and threatened Dawkins with criminal action for trespassing if he didn't leave immediately - he also wasn't quite as understanding as before, saying that Dawkins had "called his children animals". Dawkins didn't do this of course, it was a reference to his belief in evolution. Dawkins had left it in to show what he believed was the two-faced nature of the Pastor.
i did not like the pastor, he was arrogant and ignorant (IMO)

Dawkins said christianity many times, yet only focused on certain parts of catholicism, which upset me in a way, because it left his arguments as generalisations and open to criticism

i taped it, and eagerly await the next part

mike
 

Tawn

Active Member
Halcyon said:
So, did anyone see it last night?
Yep. :)
What i mean by fanatical is that although he knows his science, he seems to me to be as narrow minded and ignorant of alternative ideas as any religious extremist is.
Yes I suppose I can agree with that to an extent. He states quite bluntly how he sees religion.. doesnt pull and punches and isnt the type of person who is open to the 'possibility' of there being a god. Im not he could be called ignorant of alternative ideas... he is after all aware of them to a reasonable extent.. he is just quite sure theyre false.
Anyway, he focussed on the Abrahamic faiths, i don't know why - either he doesn't know anything about other faiths or doesn't consider them a threat to human safety - which he does consider (specifically) Christianity and Islam to be.
Well lets be fair here. Hes probably got limited air time and why not approach the religons which appear to be on the rise. Why bother investigating religions such as hinduism and confusism when they (as far as im aware) have not really grown or been a part of either side of modern terrorism? Theyre also the religions we in the west are most familiar with.. so seems perfectly reasonable to limit the programme to those faiths.
It was obviously filmed in a biased manner, which is only to be expected.
Absolutely. Quite refreshing to hear the opposite polar view being expressed on national television.
At one point he interviewed an Evangelical Pastor and got into a discussion/debate. The Pastor remained calm and polite throughout,
hang on.. hang on...

can i stop you there.

Were we watching the same program? The pastor was practically about to explode!!!!
Dawkins on the other hand did get quite irrate and came across arrogant - the Pastor even chastised him for being arrogant. I thought "Why has he (Dawkins) left this in the film" and i was impressed with the seemingly wise, accepting and polite attitude of the Pastor.
My first reaction was actually one of utter disbelief at the Pastors attitude. There he was telling Dawkins to not be arrogant.. whilst he himself was being extremely arrogant. I came away with a very negative opinion of the pastor... I dont know why you seem to think the opposite??? :confused:
Dawkins was visibly angry at the 'accident' comment the Pastor attributed to evolution... but I didnt think he came across (in what we saw) as arrogant...

My girfriend pointed out to me later however that its quite likely that the start of their conversation was cut out. The pastors aggressive attitude might have very well been justified.. who knows what Dawkins was saying to him earlier?
The nietze comment probably didnt do him any favours even if it was delivered as politely as possible.
I'm looking forward to the final part next week.
Yup me too.

I did cringe at the awful Mount improbable analogy. That should have been cut!!!
 

Fluffy

A fool
My girfriend pointed out to me later however that its quite likely that the start of their conversation was cut out. The pastors aggressive attitude might have very well been justified.. who knows what Dawkins was saying to him earlier?
He likened him to a Nazi and dressed it up as relevant and as if he meant no offense but just a harmless observation. I would bet good money he did it deliberately to rile the preacher up whilst trying to make it look like it was the preacher overreacting.

Dawkins does come across as arrogant and I dislike his methods and alot of his grand ideas ("Brights", what was he thinking?) but you really can`t argue with his facts.
Oh yeah I forgot about that whole Bright thing :). To be fair though, it wasn't his idea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bright_%28noun%29
 

ch'ang

artist in training
I'm here stuck in the US where Texas would probably explode if this was aired and was wondering if some kind person would post a link where I could watch these shows, they seem to be very intriguing.(Also as a I side not I was wondering if these shows were filmed recently or are just being released because I know that a while back he said that he would no longer participate in debates with religious fundamentalists because he thought there was nothing to argue with and actually putting them on TV to talk about it would lend their beliefs more credit.)
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
ch'ang said:
... I was wondering if these shows were filmed recently or are just being released because I know that a while back he said that he would no longer participate in debates with religious fundamentalists because he thought there was nothing to argue with and actually putting them on TV to talk about it would lend their beliefs more credit.)
I believe this piece is pretty recent.

Dawkins stated in The Blind Watchmaker (and elsewhere) he wouldn`t participate in any "Formal" debates on the subject of evolution/creationism because it was a waste of time and biased against evolution.
I don`t think he meant he`d stop any and all public discussion of religion.

I can see why he`d make this decision
 

ThisShouldMakeSense

Active Member
I saw it and thought he made some good points, such as the root of certain beliefs that are non scriptural and being taught as doctrine etc, but I would say he was biased. I happen to work in broadcasting as an editor and know the process of programme makers, producers and editors. If they decide from the outset who the bad guy is, they can paint the picture however they like.
As for the pastor incident, I definitely think something was cut. I thought the pastor's argument and manner were fine, and also wondered why he left it in the programme. But when he showed the confrontation in the car park, dawkins probably thought he was showing the dark side of the pastor. But, how do we know that dawkins wasn’t trying to speak to others, perhaps less knowledgeable people in the car park? If an apostate did that outside your church, I’m sure you’d tell them to leave too. But that is just speculation.
 

Atheist_Dave

*Foxy Lady*
I am a huge fan of Dawkins, I have enjoyed all his books especially "River out of eden". He is an expert on all religions and knows more than more believers do, this is why he manages to come up with such convincing counters. The show was cool, but if you want to understand his ideas more I suggest reading his books. "Blind watchmaker", "The Selfish Gene" and "River out of eden" are all very informative. x
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Atheist_Dave said:
I am a huge fan of Dawkins, I have enjoyed all his books especially "River out of eden". He is an expert on all religions and knows more than more believers do, this is why he manages to come up with such convincing counters. The show was cool, but if you want to understand his ideas more I suggest reading his books. "Blind watchmaker", "The Selfish Gene" and "River out of eden" are all very informative. x
I have a great deal of respect for Dawkins, but just how can anyone, even Dawkins, be an "expert on all religions"? That sounds like an immense exageration.
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
Sunstone said:
I have a great deal of respect for Dawkins, but just how can anyone, even Dawkins, be an "expert on all religions"? That sounds like an immense exageration.
Indeed, i wouldn't say he's an expert on any religion. Sure, he's knowledgeable about them insomuch as he needs to counter certain arguments, but he's studied science his whole life - to be an expert on religion he would needed to have studied that equally as much.
 

ThisShouldMakeSense

Active Member
Atheist_Dave said:
I am a huge fan of Dawkins, I have enjoyed all his books especially "River out of eden". He is an expert on all religions and knows more than more believers do,...

I agree with the others there. he isn't an expert on all religions. For instance, he claims that Christians believe the universe and everything in it were created in 7 literal days. Wrong. It wasn't, and not all Christians believe that. A day can be an undefined period of time, much like the saying 'in my father's day' doesn't refer to a single 24-hour day. So i'd take that back if i were you.
 

Atheist_Dave

*Foxy Lady*
I wil not take back a statement because of what you say, every modern evolutionist has studied religions closely, expert probably a strong word admittidly, maybe I got over excited. x
 
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