Roguish musings

[Roguish]

Musing 1:

Religion is not meant to save a man from perdition.
It is meant to save The-One-that-is-prior-to-Man from being a man.

In more modern words:

Religion is not meant to save humanity.
It is meant to save one from humanity —

that is, from being human,
and indeed, from being at all.​

 

[SomeRandom]

Lol sounds Dharmic like.
Ahh Roguish. Explore your philosophy, I feel you could end up happier

 

[Spirit of Light]

Musing 1:

Religion is not meant to save a man from perdition.
It is meant to save The-One-that-is-prior-to-Man from being a man.

In more modern words:

Religion is not meant to save humanity.
It is meant to save one from humanity —

that is, from being human,
and indeed, from being at all.​

If someone who has not been born as humans ( God, Angels and so on) was born on earth they would need spiritual teaching to come back to their original existence.

So religion or spiritual teaching is for humans

 

[Roguish]

Musing 2:

The single greatest theological disaster that has happened in this world

is the denial (or skeptic assessment) of the principle of reincarnation.​

Once man doubts or denies reincarnation, he believes (consciously or subconsciously) that the death of his body will be the end of his problems (insofar as he has any).

Once an intelligent creature is no longer aware of the principle of reincarnation,
the possibility arises for extremely malevolent forces to trap such a creature in a Reincarnation Reactor. And it is precisely this that is taking place in this world in the present era.

 

[PureX]

Musing 1:

Religion is not meant to save a man from perdition.
It is meant to save The-One-that-is-prior-to-Man from being a man.

In more modern words:

Religion is not meant to save humanity.
It is meant to save one from humanity —

that is, from being human,
and indeed, from being at all.​

That's quite wrong. Most modern expressions of religion intend to save the human from the animal within which it resides.

 

[Roguish]

Lol sounds Dharmic like.

Correct. Or actually, it is not "dharmic-like", but simply dharmic.

Ahh Roguish. Explore your philosophy, I feel you could end up happier

The notion (and assumption) that the pursuit of happiness is (under the circumstances of the present era), a healthy goal for a man to have, is part of the most treacherous and murderous deceit ever.

Cling to the pursuit of happiness and the Reactor will certainly catch you. To escape, one must reject the pursuit of happiness utterly and completely.

 

[Roguish]

Most modern expressions of religion intend to save the human from the animal within which it resides.

"Modern expressions of religion" are not religion. There is no such thing as "modern religion", for modernity is the arch enemy of religion. Modernity is the project of the utter destruction and elimination of religion.

That "modern expressions of religion" purport to "save the human" (from whatever) is symptomatic of their falsehood. All attempts to "save the human" will ensnare you further. The Reactor exploits this very attachment: the attachment of humans to "being human". Cling to it and it will catch you.

 

[Roguish]

If someone who has not been born as humans ( God, Angels and so on) was born on earth they would need spiritual teaching to come back to their original existence. So religion or spiritual teaching is for humans

Correct, it is for humans. My point is not that religion is not for humans, for it certainly is. My point is that religion is instruction (for humans) on how to abandon being human. To put it in your terminology: religion is instruction on how to return to the state one was in before being born as a human; again in your terms: "their original existence" (which was not human, but angel-like or god-like).

Thank you for your response.

 

[SomeRandom]

Correct. Or actually, it is not "dharmic-like", but simply dharmic.

Hmm, growing up Dharmic, this was obvious to me. Lol

The notion (and assumption) that the pursuit of happiness is (under the circumstances of the present era), a healthy goal for a man to have, is part of the most treacherous and murderous deceit ever.

Perhaps. But we must kill the ego to truly succeed, right? Perhaps the pursuit of happiness can accomplish this.

Cling to the pursuit of happiness and the Reactor will certainly catch you. To escape, one must reject the pursuit of happiness utterly and completely.

That presumes that all human emotion is detrimental to enlightenment. Seems a bit unrealistic. But I understand the reasoning, believe me. I dunno, consult your guru

 

[SalixIncendium]

That's quite wrong. Most modern expressions of religion intend to save the human from the animal within which it resides.

I hate to break it to you, but humans are animals.

And who are you to say that @Roguish’s ideas are wrong and yours are right? At least his don’t conclude with faulty logic.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Musing 2:

The single greatest theological disaster that has happened in this world

is the denial (or skeptic assessment) of the principle of reincarnation.​

Once man doubts or denies reincarnation, he believes (consciously or subconsciously) that the death of his body will be the end of his problems (insofar as he has any).

Once an intelligent creature is no longer aware of the principle of reincarnation,
the possibility arises for extremely malevolent forces to trap such a creature in a Reincarnation Reactor. And it is precisely this that is taking place in this world in the present era.

This Reincarnation Reactor you speak of aligns with the Hindu concept of samsara.

Though I’m not sure I would call those forces “malevolent.” They’re just avidya (false knowledge, i.e. ignorance of once’s true nature).

 

[Roguish]

But we must kill the ego to truly succeed, right?

Loosely speaking, we could say that's true. But we must be careful with words. Because, what is the ego precisely? Most moderns believe that the ego is the one's sense of existence — and they'll tell you it's an illusion, and that seeing it for an illusion will put an end to it. All this is treacherous folly. The ego that must be killed is not one's sense of existence. The ego is the principle of self-assertion, that is, assertiveness. Equivalently, we may say it is intention or the power of intention -- the power of human will when it asserts itself against God's Will. It is this habit of assertiveness that must be killed, and ironically it is precisely (and only) self-awareness that is capable of killing it. Thus we see that moderns have it completely the wrong way around: they love self-assertivness (in truth they live 100% out of self-assertiveness) while they claim that self-awareness is illusion or an "emergent" property. Authentic religion on the other hand condemns self-assertiveness while prescribing that self-awareness (under whichever name, e.g. the mind of Christ or the mind of Krishna, etc.) is the one means that can subdue and extinguish self-assertiveness — can, and will, if one is willing to give up everything else.

Perhaps the pursuit of happiness can accomplish this.

Again in a paradoxical way, you are right. The radical pursuit of happiness will indirectly contribute to one's Path toward Liberation (I don't like the word "Enlightenment") by bringing one to the Insight that all is hopeless in this world. One should not forego the pursuit of happiness because one has been told that one should. (This is impossible anyway.) As long as one has the urge, one should pursue it with maximum vigor — not because one will be succesful, but because only the experience of the ultimate and inevitable failure at this happiness project (in spite of temporary comforts and pleasures) can bring one to the pursuit of the True Goal, which is Escape, aka Liberation. (A dharmic one such as yourself will know it as Moksha.)

That presumes that all human emotion is detrimental to enlightenment.

It is. There is no such thing as a perfect saint who still has emotions. Emotions must (and will) be curbed by sustained self-awareness, and ultimately extinguished. In this regard it is telling that the word "emotion" literally means "a moving out". Out of what? Out of one's stable center of self-awareness, that is, out of the (divinely given) mind of the Savior (under whichever name one knows Him). It is therefore no stretch to say that emotion refers to de-stabilization of the mind, and that the ideal is to eradicate (root and all) emotion from one's mind.

Seems a bit unrealistic.

Realism is the enemy of religion, same as modernism is. In truth, realism and modernism are two aspects of the same thing. Realism is a mental construct. It derives its power not from being ground in Truth, but from the adherence of billions of people to this mental construct. They have no choice, for this monstrous mental construct was hammered into their memories by the nefarious system of "modern education" that is ubiquitious on this planet now. But whoever receives the Divine-Mind-that-Liberates, will have the option of breaking away from this morbid egregore.

But I understand the reasoning, believe me.

You sound like you do.

I dunno, consult your guru

I did. He taught me these matters, and many other matters too.
To quote His words: "You must utterly reject reality and firmly plant yourself in Actuality."
I trust Him blindly.

Thank you for your thought-provoking and sane response.

 

[Roguish]

This Reincarnation Reactor you speak of aligns with the Hindu concept of samsara.

You make a tremendously important point, but it is not so.

Samsara operates under the Original Laws. In summary, they are: intention (good or bad) leads to karma (good or bad). Good karma leads to good (better than one's current) rebirth, bad karma leads to bad (worse than one's current) rebirth. Both lead to rebirth. Escape from the cycle is possible by suffering the consequences of any remaining karma and not generating any new karma. When one has zero remaining karma at the moment of physical death, one escape's samsara. (I know you know all this; I'm just recapping for the sake of clarity of my own argument.)

The Reincarnation Reactor however, does not operate on these principles. See my argument below.

Though I’m not sure I would call those forces “malevolent.” They’re just avidya (false knowledge, i.e. ignorance of once’s true nature).

But that is precisely my point. There is a big difference between stuck in Samsara and being stuck in the Reincarnation Reactor. As you correctly point out, in Samsara one is not under the compulsion of malevolent forces, but only under the compulsion of forces (the original Rule Set) that are strict but fair.

However, those days are over. The Reincarnation Reactor that I speak of, prevents humans from living under the Original Ruleset. It exploits certain "cracks" in the Ruleset to trick humans into living under Total Manipulation both during life and also in the intermediate state between rebirths. And it is this second aspect that is the absolute terror that I speak of. The malevolent ones (that designed the Reactor) are out to trap you forever by preventing you from living under the Original Ruleset. Their aim is not to punish you for bad karma (or reward you for good), but to prevent you from ever escaping Samsara even if you were willing to suffer all the consequences of your karma.

Thank you for your interest and response.

 

[SalixIncendium]

You make a tremendously important point, but it is not so.

Samsara operates under the Original Laws. In summary, they are: intention (good or bad) leads to karma (good or bad). Good karma leads to good (better than one's current) rebirth, bad karma leads to bad (worse than one's current) rebirth. Both lead to rebirth. Escape from the cycle is possible by suffering the consequences of any remaining karma and not generating any new karma. When one has zero remaining karma at the moment of physical death, one escape's samsara. (I know you know all this; I'm just recapping for the sake of clarity of my own argument.)

The Reincarnation Reactor however, does not operate on these principles. See my argument below.



But that is precisely my point. There is a big difference between stuck in Samsara and being stuck in the Reincarnation Reactor. As you correctly point out, in Samsara one is not under the compulsion of malevolent forces, but only under the compulsion of forces (the original Rule Set) that are strict but fair.

However, those days are over. The Reincarnation Reactor that I speak of, prevents humans from living under the Original Ruleset. It exploits certain "cracks" in the Ruleset to trick humans into living under Total Manipulation both during life and also in the intermediate state between rebirths. And it is this second aspect that is the absolute terror that I speak of. The malevolent ones (that designed the Reactor) are out to trap you forever by preventing you from living under the Original Ruleset. Their aim is not to punish you for bad karma (or reward you for good), but to prevent you from ever escaping Samsara even if you were willing to suffer all the consequences of your karma.

Thank you for your interest and response.

Who or what are these “malevolent ones?”

 

[Roguish]

Who or what are these “malevolent ones?”

There are traditional names for them, but modern man is prejudiced against these names so I will not (for the moment) use them. I will (try to) explain in a different way.

Consider that you are playing a computer "role-playing" game, an RPG. You are so fond of playing it, that every time you die you cannot resist the urge to go back and play another round, probablyy with a slightly different character (a "build" as RPG fanatics call it). This addiction in itself is not harmful. Why not play a hundred, or a thousand, or a billion characters ("builds")? As long as you're not fed up with the game, why not keep on playing it? And if you ever do get fed up with it, then that will be the time to stop playing, right? Right.

Now here's the problem. Some of the top programmers of the Game, with supremely expert knowledge of the programming code (of which normal players are entirely unaware), have entered the game world. They have done so not with the purpose of informing players that "Hey, these are the rules of the Game, just so you know how to play, and just so you know it's just a Game, and just so you know you can quit playing if you're fed up." Such programmers have existed too, but they were benign: they just "came down" to give the players the Rules and a Way Out. Let's call them the "Old Ones".

But the programmers I am speaking of now, have an entirely different agenda, and it is a particularly nefarious one. They have entered the game world to trick players into habitually exploiting knowledge of the programming code (which they give them) in order to avoid being subject to the Rules of the Game. What these programmers tell players is: "Hey, this is how it works, why don't you make maximum use of this knowledge in order to establish and maintain your 'happiness'?" The players (humans) eagerly accept, not knowing that by growing accustomed to living by exploits they are excluding themselves from the beneficial influence of the Game Rules; and furthermore, that by getting from under the Game Rules, they are buildig their own eternal prison. Because there is one thing that these malevolent programmers don't tell humans, and that is that they are stuck in the Game World not for a single lifetime, but for millions or billions of lifetimes until they suffer (i.e. gracefully accept) the consequences of their karma. (Or until the Game Server shuts down, but it is going to be a very, very, veeery long time before that happens.)

In effect, these malevolent programmers are teaching humans to live by exploits, and thus not play the Game according to its (Samsaric) Rules at all. Their modus operandi is: encourage humans to maximize their lust for life, and teach them to use exploits to avoid (or minimize) their exposure to the karmic consequences of any intentional (i.e. karma-generating) actions. The result? Spiritual creatures who are accumulating more and more karma, with no way of getting rid of it anymore, and who are therefore stuck forever in the Game World.

You might ask: Why are these programmers doing this? Well, to them it's simply a rebellious experiment through which they live out their sadistic tendencies. It is no different from what makes young kids torture animals. It is for "fun".

P.S. I'd happily elaborate on precisely how these malevolent programmers trick humans, but I feel I should go for a walk now. I'll be back shortly.

 

[Thief]

Musing 1:

Religion is not meant to save a man from perdition.
It is meant to save The-One-that-is-prior-to-Man from being a man.

In more modern words:

Religion is not meant to save humanity.
It is meant to save one from humanity —

that is, from being human,
and indeed, from being at all.​

as if to move toward non-existence?
as if being....not at all......is the goal?

not buying it

 

[PureX]

I hate to break it to you, but humans are animals.

And who are you to say that @Roguish’s ideas are wrong and yours are right? At least his don’t conclude with faulty logic.

By most religious conceptions of humanity, we are spirits living in animal bodies. And the religions are concerned with the well being of the spirit, not the
Animal body. The body is only a carrier. And should not be allowed to control and imperil the human spirit within it. The religions intend to help people maintain control of that animal body, and it's often destructive desires.

 

[SalixIncendium]

By most religious conceptions of humanity, we are spirits living in animal bodies. And the religions are concerned with the well being of the spirit, not the
Animal body. The body is only a carrier. And should not be allowed to control and imperil the human spirit within it. The religions intend to help people maintain control of that animal body, and it's often destructive desires.

In my view “spirit” =/= “human.”

All forms of life, in my understanding, are “spirit” in their true nature, not just humans.

 

[Thief]

By most religious conceptions of humanity, we are spirits living in animal bodies. And the religions are concerned with the well being of the spirit, not the
Animal body. The body is only a carrier. And should not be allowed to control and imperil the human spirit within it. The religions intend to help people maintain control of that animal body, and it's often destructive desires.

do you think the same effect could be accomplished without
dogmatic gesture and ritual?

 

[PureX]

"Modern expressions of religion" are not religion. There is no such thing as "modern religion", for modernity is the arch enemy of religion. Modernity is the project of the utter destruction and elimination of religion.

That "modern expressions of religion" purport to "save the human" (from whatever) is symptomatic of their falsehood. All attempts to "save the human" will ensnare you further. The Reactor exploits this very attachment: the attachment of humans to "being human". Cling to it and it will catch you.

Religions change over time just like everything else we humans engage in. I was referring to more recent expressions of religion. Modern, as opposed to ancient.

 

[PureX]

do you think the same effect could be accomplished without
dogmatic gesture and ritual?

I think the struggle is still raging.