Retention rates.

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think it most likely doesn't include the 'don't know, don't care' crowd. So technically those folks would be not atheists now.

I'm trying to drill down to the actual study report but haven't been able to get to it so far (the pages keep becoming unresponsive on my phone for some reason). I'm curious about their methodology.

One thing that occurs to me: atheists only make up a small percentage of the population, and atheists who raise their children to be atheists only make up a small percentage of atheists. If their sample size of "people who were raised by their parents to be atheists" is small, then we would expect quite a bit of error in their results. Without knowing how many people they surveyed in each group, it's hard to say how reliable the study results are.

Also, I can't help noticing two things:

- lots of Catholic commentator (including one bishop I found) gloating over how the study indicates that Catholics do better than most other Christian denominations and that the low retention of atheists shows that people have an "innate longing for God".

- the survey was done by a Catholic research organization (the Centre for Applied Research in the Apostolate).

... so the results do appear to be self-serving. Were they manipulated to be that way? I don't know - I know nothing about CARA's reputation and haven't been able to look into this study in detail. But the incentive is certainly there.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I've always thought of agnosticism as no belief, and atheism as a belief. After all, one is saying, "I don't know, maybe, maybe not" whereas the other says , "Oh yeah, I know all right. There absolutely is no God."

But my understanding could be way off too.

My understanding is that agnosticism isn't just saying "I don't know"; it's saying "the question is unanswerable", while atheism is saying "I haven't found any gods to be convincing."

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm trying to drill down to the actual study report but haven't been able to get to it so far (the pages keep becoming unresponsive on my phone for some reason). I'm curious about their methodology.

35 000 people total, 0.4 % were Hindu which is 140 people. Not insignificant statistically, but also more likely to error. Atheism was slightly higher. The gloating thing we can all do without.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

35 000 people total, 0.4 % were Hindu which is 140 people. Not insignificant statistically, but also more likely to error. Atheism was slightly higher. The gloating thing we can all do without.

The 95% confidence range for a sample size of 140 people is about 8.2%. This means that there's a 95% chance that the actual retention rate for Hinduism falls between 77% and 91%. Quite a spread.

BTW: where did you get those numbers? Do you have a link to the original study?

 

[Vinayaka]

BTW: where did you get those numbers? Do you have a link to the original study?

Yup. Statistics on Religion in America Report -- Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yup. Statistics on Religion in America Report -- Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life

That's a different survey. The one you referenced in the OP was by CARA, not the Pew Forum.

 

[Vinayaka]

Sorry, I thought that Patheos article was quoting PEW. But this Pew Forum's U.S. Religious Landscape Survey - RationalWiki uses both. I couldn't find an original CARA either.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Atheists do not drill their atheism in their children or family. Atheism is by choice. Everyone in my family is a theist.

 

[paarsurrey]

Atheists do not drill their atheism in their children or family. Atheism is by choice. Everyone in my family is a theist.

By definition Atheism is a transitory viewpoint of confusion and doubt; not of any conviction or positive ideology having any certainty. As soon as one gets out of it one would leave it and join elsewhere; hence no drilling down.

Regards

 

[Vinayaka]

By definition Atheism is a transitory viewpoint of confusion and doubt; not of any conviction or positive ideology having any certainty. As soon as one gets out of it one would leave it and join elsewhere; hence no drilling down.

Regards

Whose definition is this? I've never heard of it.

 

[paarsurrey]

Atheism is a transitory viewpoint of confusion and doubt; not of any conviction or positive ideology having any certainty. As soon as one gets out of it one would leave it and join elsewhere

Whose definition is this? I've never heard of it.

They are atheists without a positive proof or evidence in favor of atheism; so that makes this a transitory position.

Regards

 

[Vinayaka]

They are atheists without a positive proof or evidence in favor of atheism; so that makes this a transitory position.

Regards

I asked where you got this definition. The atheists I know don't see it as a transitory position. They see theists as being in a transitory position. They say the same thing ... that theists have no positive proof.

This is a more standard definition..




noun
noun: atheism

1. disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

 

[LuisDantas]

They are atheists without a positive proof or evidence in favor of atheism; so that makes this a transitory position.

Regards

Excuse me? Are you kidding?

 

[Aupmanyav]

They are atheists without a positive proof or evidence in favor of atheism; so that makes this a transitory position.

Oh, and you think you have one for theism? What is it? Qur'an?

I asked where you got this definition. The atheists I know don't see it as a transitory position. They see theists as being in a transitory position.

Hey Vinayaka, do you think I would change sides anytime? Or would you ever change sides? I think, both theists and atheists have arrived at their conclusions after much study and thought. Unless, the are starters, they are not likely to change sides.

 

[Pegg]

Here's a study comparing retention rates by religion. (Just for US, I think) I think all faiths struggle to some extent these days. With much more education available, people shift around a lot more in belief, that I suspect they did even 50 years back.

I don't see it as a bad thing, just an observation on life.

Thoughts?

Religious retention rates

in some way its a comparison of apples with oranges because not all religions require strict adherence or practice and some of them do not allow those born into the religion to leave it.

The graph is interesting but i dont think it offers enough information about why there is more retention in some religions and less in others.

 

[Vinayaka]

in some way its a comparison of apples with oranges because not all religions require strict adherence or practice and some of them do not allow those born into the religion to leave it.

The graph is interesting but i dont think it offers enough information about why there is more retention in some religions and less in others.

Yes, I agree with you. I took it with a grain of salt ... put out as a starter for discussion. The entire study was longer than that one graph though.

 

[Vinayaka]

Hey Vinayaka, do you think I would change sides anytime? Or would you ever change sides? I think, both theists and atheists have arrived at their conclusions after much study and thought. Unless, the are starters, they are not likely to change sides.

In your case, you already know I think you're a theist in disguise, but yes, you won't change. Most changing, as per the study, is done at a younger age. Just like marriage, the longer you're married, the more likely you are to stay married. Besides, we're both too old to put in the effort to change.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Nor we think there is a need for it, in marriage or in belief.

 

[paarsurrey]

Atheists do not drill their atheism in their children or family. Atheism is by choice. Everyone in my family is a theist.

They are so natural.

Regards

 

[Aupmanyav]

I can live with them but don't ask me what I think of them.