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Resurrection

Melissa G

Melissa G

Non Veritas Verba Amanda
Easter, of course is another Pagan festival appropriated by the Roman Church and then the rest of the Christian world, stating the obvious though, it is about the central plank of the Christian faith, namely the resurrection. Personally I have never believed in this, only seeing it as a good selling point to the underclass of the Roman Empire in the first instance.

Which made me wonder how many believe in a physical resurrection of the dead ? to acheive such a thing, every law of science would have to broken, in particular the 2nd law of thermodynamics reversed. Not only would the dispersed molecules have to be reassembled, but the whole complex bio-chemistry of human cells would have to constructed over again for every individual.

None the less, whatever your belief, enjoy Easter for what it means to you.

Melissa G
 
logician

logician

Well-Known Member
It's funny no ressurections have happened since the supposed ressurection of the supposed CHrist.

Wasn't the holy spirit supposed to give believers the power of the supposed Jesus?
 
Magic Man

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Melissa G said:
Easter, of course is another Pagan festival appropriated by the Roman Church and then the rest of the Christian world, stating the obvious though, it is about the central plank of the Christian faith, namely the resurrection. Personally I have never believed in this, only seeing it as a good selling point to the underclass of the Roman Empire in the first instance.

Which made me wonder how many believe in a physical resurrection of the dead ? to acheive such a thing, every law of science would have to broken, in particular the 2nd law of thermodynamics reversed. Not only would the dispersed molecules have to be reassembled, but the whole complex bio-chemistry of human cells would have to constructed over again for every individual.

None the less, whatever your belief, enjoy Easter for what it means to you.

Melissa G
Click to expand...

Interesting. I think it's pretty clear at this point that what is dead, stays dead. The opposite has not been proven, although, it is always possible that it will one day happen.

I think the more interesting thing you bring up is the correlation between Easter and the beginning of spring. Do you think it was just coincidence that Easter came to fall right around the time when nature "resurrected" itself after "being dead" through the winter. It seems more planned to me than it should be, especially since the pagan religions already had a "holiday" around this time to celebrate the beginning of spring and "new life". It seems a little convenient to have placed an important Christian holiday with a theme of resurrection and new life at the same time as a pagan holiday celebrating the same theme, when trying to convert those pagans who celebrated the original holiday.
 
Melissa G

Melissa G

Non Veritas Verba Amanda
The two festivals are closely linked in terms of new life, new beginnings. The Christian festival does not of course promote fertility as such. The old rites of Spring, were concerned with Sexual matters.

The Roman Church, as was its practice, appropriated Pagan Festivals, and it was quite deliberate on their part.

~M
 
Magic Man

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Melissa G said:
The two festivals are closely linked in terms of new life, new beginnings. The Christian festival does not of course promote fertility as such. The old rites of Spring, were concerned with Sexual matters.

The Roman Church, as was its practice, appropriated Pagan Festivals, and it was quite deliberate on their part.

~M
Click to expand...

Well, of course they had to get rid of that sexual stuff! That stuff is evil! :eek:

Yup. I just think it's funny when people refuse to see that many of the Church's holidays and beliefs are directly based on pagan themes.
 
Dunemeister

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
I believe in the physical resurrection of Jesus (with all the scientific issues that raises withstanding). And yes, the timing of Easter was meant by the church to subvert pagan rites. (It's worth noting that the victory was never complete. Pagan tendencies and practices persisted throughout the European Christian centuries.)

The Church has always held that the resurrection is not like a physical law. It's not as if "Jesus could do it, so Christians can, too," even though the power of the Spirit is granted to Jesus' people. Rather, the resurrection is a two-phased event. The first phase involves Jesus, and it's a highly political event. Jesus was crucified as a messianic pretender, as a so-called "King of the Jews." By raising him from the dead, God has declared Jesus to be the Son of God with power (Romans 1:3 - 4). As Jesus put it, "All authority and heaven and on earth has been given to me" (Matthew 28:18). Since Jesus is Lord, Caesar isn't. Mithras isn't. Allah isn't. <Insert your favorite deity or power here> isn't.

The second phase involves all humankind. Eventually, God will raise everyone who has ever lived. At that time, all persons will be judged based on the quality of the life lived (notice: unless the person has heard of Jesus, failure to submit to Jesus' rule won't be an issue at judgment). God doesn't play favorites. "For he will repay according to each one's deeds: to those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he wll give eternal life; while for those who are self-seeking and who obey not the truth but wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be anguish and distress for everyone who deos evil, the Jew first and also for the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality. (Romans 2:6 - 11)

There will also be a "resurrection" of sorts for the whole created cosmos. When humankind is resurrected, the earth and cosmos will be renewed (not destroyed -- how did we ever get to think that?). The creation, now subject to futility, will rejoice at that day. (Romans 8)

Of course, none of what I've said goes to prove that it has happened. My purpose here is only to clarify what resurrection means.
 
Popeyesays

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Actually a second resurrection, far more important took place that Sunday after Passover.

The death of Jesus had so demoralized His followers they were totally abject and fearful for their own lives. That Easter their morale was revived, they set forth to carry a message to people whatever the cost to themselves. Therefore both their own faith and the cause of Christ were "resurrected" that morning and in the days following.

I do not believe that there was a physical resurrection of the , but the apostles witnessed a spiritual event that their senses perceived as physical.

The flesh is dust, it is not the nature of dust to reassemble itself into lost forms. It assembles itself into new forms, of course and then who has ownership of the particular particles.

Regards,
Scott
 
logician

logician

Well-Known Member
I see nobody cared to answer my question, so I will assume that Christian really don't believe in the power of the holy spirit and all that stuff.
 
Father Heathen

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Yeah, about that...

Please, if you would check this link out, it covers the origins of the Christ mythos and why everything falls into place as it does.
 
Troublemane

Troublemane

Well-Known Member
I believe that Jesus survived the crucifixion. I think personally someone paid off the Romans to give him a soporific in that sponge supposedly of vinegar, cuz it was right after that he went unconscious. People were surprised by that, it generally took em alot longer to die, and it was excruciating---in fact, thats where the word excruciating comes from. The body was taken to the tomb of Nicodemus, a wealthy follower of Christ. When the women went to the tomb three days later, the guards were gone and the stone rolled away, and...well, the gospels are mixed about what happened next. Mark's gospel is the most conservative---The women find a young man in white who tells them Jesus is not there, he's risen. In Luke, there are two men with shiny garments who tell them Jesus is risen. In John's gospel the two men become two angels, and in Matthew the gloves come off---we are back to one dude, but hes now a big angel, theres an earthquake and everything, stone rolls away and BEHOLD, Jesus tain't there! .....the story kind'a gets exaggerated with each re-telling, apparently.

But the way Jesus appears to his disciples later: in disguise, and then in the flesh they feel his wounds, etc. I believe he was really alive, and escaped to Europe as many people believe. I dont think this is all that far-fetched, considering how limited the average persons' understanding was of medicine. Someone could have been in a coma and thought dead, even up until recent times.
 
Troublemane

Troublemane

Well-Known Member
Father Heathen said:
*groan* Yes, that wacky time traveling devil. Unfortunately, Occam's razor disagrees.
Click to expand...

The trouble with using Occam's Razor in that way is that Occam was a devout christian. The actual statement of the philosophy of Occam is :"For nothing ought to be posited without a reason given, unless it is self-evident (literally, known through itself) or known by experience or proved by the authority of Sacred Scripture"
William of Ockham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

:angel2:
 
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