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Requesting Possible Answers from Christians

Danizar

New member
Christianity seems to me to be the most difficult religion to follow. In Islam, you follow certain laws and you're good to go. If you're a Jew, you're one of God's chosen people. If you're a Buddhist, you meditate and get enlightened. But faith is different. You can't give yourself faith. God is supposed to give you the Holy Spirit, right? Well, I don't feel that I have been given faith. So now what? Am I going to Hell? I can't DO anything, because I'm supposedly saved by grace through faith, which I don't seem to have. And I have asked God to send His Holy Spirit down upon me, believe me I have. But He hasn't. I can say I'm a Christian all I want, can recite the Creed till my jaw hurts, but it won't change what's in my heart, which is naturally skeptical (and I find it rather hard to believe that so many others in the world are all wrong). I even considered somehow brainwashing myself (didn't try that, though). Don't get me wrong, I love Christian ideals, and as for those Christians whose lives God has touched, who have a "relationship" with Christ, I ENVY you. So am I doomed? A little help here...
 
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te_lanus

Alien Hybrid
Hi danizar

I believe as long as you believe that Jesus was sent By God the Father, to die for your sins, your ok. Jesus said in Matthew, methinks, "Whoever believes in me will have eternal life" and " I'm the way, ... , No one comes to the Father than thru me" (Paraphrased). Anything else is secondary, and will not get you into or out of heaven. (except sinning against the HG, but we don't know what that is)
 

iloveislam

Muslim
In Islam, you follow certain laws and you're good to go.

I'm a Muslim and I didn't understand what you mean.

Can you please rephrase that one.

So now what? Am I going to Hell?

"No one laden with burdens can bear another's burden. And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning)."
[Qur'an 17:15]

Thus you will not bear the burden of others who have commited sin.

Also God Almighty is not going to send someone to Hell if they had not recieved the Message of Islam.

I can't DO anything, because I'm supposedly saved by grace through faith, which I don't seem to have. And I have asked God to send His Holy Spirit down upon me, believe me I have. But He hasn't. I can say I'm a Christian all I want, can recite the Creed till my jaw hurts, but it won't change what's in my heart, which is naturally skeptical (and I find it rather hard to believe that so many others in the world are all wrong). I even considered somehow brainwashing myself (didn't try that, though). Don't get me wrong, I love Christian ideals, and as for those Christians whose lives God has touched, who have a "relationship" with Christ, I ENVY you. So am I doomed? A little help here...

Your story is similar to this one here and here
 

Danizar

New member
Don't Muslims have to basically follow the 5 Pillars? Their religious life goals, I assume?
 
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Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
Christianity seems to me to be the most difficult religion to follow. In Islam, you follow certain laws and you're good to go. If you're a Jew, you're one of God's chosen people. If you're a Buddhist, you meditate and get enlightened. But faith is different. You can't give yourself faith. God is supposed to give you the Holy Spirit, right? Well, I don't feel that I have been given faith. So now what? Am I going to Hell? I can't DO anything, because I'm supposedly saved by grace through faith, which I don't seem to have. And I have asked God to send His Holy Spirit down upon me, believe me I have. But He hasn't. I can say I'm a Christian all I want, can recite the Creed till my jaw hurts, but it won't change what's in my heart, which is naturally skeptical (and I find it rather hard to believe that so many others in the world are all wrong). I even considered somehow brainwashing myself (didn't try that, though). Don't get me wrong, I love Christian ideals, and as for those Christians whose lives God has touched, who have a "relationship" with Christ, I ENVY you. So am I doomed? A little help here...

The relevant passage here is Romans 10:5-13, particularly what is bold:

Moses writes concerning the righteousness that comes from the law, that ‘the person who does these things will live by them.’ But the righteousness that comes from faith says, ‘Do not say in your heart, “Who will ascend into heaven?” ’ (that is, to bring Christ down) ‘or “Who will descend into the abyss?” ’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say?
‘The word is near you,
on your lips and in your heart’
(that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved. The scripture says, ‘No one who believes in him will be put to shame.’ For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and is generous to all who call on him. For, ‘Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.’

The "confession" bit is traditionally what happens during baptism or chrismation/confirmation, where the believer renounces "the devil and all his works" and announces his allegiance to Christ. However, as you've pointed out, you can say the creed until your jaw hurts. It counts for naught unless you "believe in your heart" that God raised Jesus from the dead. So you're right that a deep conviction is required here.

It sounds as though you don't believe in your heart but that you'd like to. If that's truly the case, that is, if in fact you really WANT to believe in your heart (although now it appears to you that you don't), I suggest that you are being moved in the right direction. It simply takes longer for some than for others to transition from regarding the gospel as foolish and undesirable to eminently wise and beautiful. There can be a protracted and confusing "middle time" for some people. It's unclear to me why it is that you are in that uncomfortable middle time. But your being there is not necessarily a sign that you don't (or won't) have faith. It just shows that you are in process. And in such a case, I take solace in the fact that God does not start a thing without finishing it. He who began a good work in you will complete it. The work he is working in you is difficult and painful, but I can assure you that when it is completed, it will be glorious to behold. A woman in labor pains does not rejoice about the pain, but when the baby arrives, she forgets the pain for the sake of the joy of having delivered a child. Similarly, your current pain in coming to faith is not fun or pleasant. It sucks. But the end result will be joyful and resilient. But only if you persevere. So persevere!
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
As a Christian who has struggled with my own faith and beliefs for long periods of time in my own life, I can suggest this:

Don't go so much by what you "feel." Feelings are transient. The heart can be deceitful. Faith is what you have when you DON'T have that "feeling" to keep your belief strong. Faith is a discipline and a call to obedience.

This doesn't mean that you check rational thought at the door - but it does mean that when your "rational" ideas or your emotions seem to contradict your religious beliefs, that you give the religious beliefs the benefit of the doubt while you study further, asking God to guide you to wisdom and understanding.

As flawed humans, we should know that though God anticipates questions from us, even fist shaking in His face, He also is all knowing, all powerful, infinitely wise and more just than we can even begin to imagine. As humans, we can't see the full picture - but He can - and that is when we have to submit to His wisdom and will whether we "feel" like it or not - or even understand it.

God promises us that when we ask Him for wisdom, He absolutely WILL give it to us - but it's on His terms and His timeline, not ours. God is not a vending machine. He has a plan for our lives and we can't see that from where we're standing.

I like to think of it like this: Take a blank piece of notebook paper. Draw a circle on it that represents ALL your knowledge. Then draw a circle around THAT circle that represents all the knowledge in the world. Then look beyond that second circle. That is the wisdom and knowledge of God.

A passage that I love to read is Job 38. I'll post it here:

Job 38


1 Then Jehovah answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel By words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; For I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who determined the measures thereof, if thou knowest? Or who stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon were the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner-stone thereof,
7 When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, When it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb;
9 When I made clouds the garment thereof, And thick darkness a swaddling-band for it,
10 And marked out for it my bound, And set bars and doors,
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further; And here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days began, And caused the dayspring to know its place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, And the wicked be shaken out of it?
14 It is changed as clay under the seal; And all things stand forth as a garment:
15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, And the high arm is broken.
16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? Or hast thou walked in the recesses of the deep?
17 Have the gates of death been revealed unto thee? Or hast thou seen the gates of the shadow of death?
18 Hast thou comprehended the earth in its breadth? Declare, if thou knowest it all.
19 Where is the way to the dwelling of light? And as for darkness, where is the place thereof,
20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, And that thou shouldest discern the paths to the house thereof?
21 Doubtless, thou knowest, for thou wast then born, And the number of thy days is great!
22 Hast thou entered the treasuries of the snow, Or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, Against the day of battle and war?
24 By what way is the light parted, Or the east wind scattered upon the earth?
25 Who hath cleft a channel for the waterflood, Or the way for the lightning of the thunder;
26 To cause it to rain on a land where no man is; On the wilderness, wherein there is no man;
27 To satisfy the waste and desolate ground , And to cause the tender grass to spring forth?
28 Hath the rain a father? Or who hath begotten the drops of dew?
29 Out of whose womb came the ice? And the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?
30 The waters hide themselves and become like stone, And the face of the deep is frozen.
31 Canst thou bind the cluster of the Pleiades, Or loose the bands of Orion?
32 Canst thou lead forth the Mazzaroth in their season? Or canst thou guide the Bear with her train?
33 Knowest thou the ordinances of the heavens? Canst thou establish the dominion thereof in the earth?
34 Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, That abundance of waters may cover thee?
35 Canst thou send forth lightnings, that they may go, And say unto thee, Here we are?
36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? Or who hath given understanding to the mind?
37 Who can number the clouds by wisdom? Or who can pour out the bottles of heaven,
38 When the dust runneth into a mass, And the clods cleave fast together?
39 Canst thou hunt the prey for the lioness, Or satisfy the appetite of the young lions,
40 When they couch in their dens, And abide in the covert to lie in wait? 41 Who provideth for the raven his prey, When his young ones cry unto God, And wander for lack of food?

American Standard Version (ASV)

As for a "personal relationship with Jesus Christ," I think that phrase can be overused. I don't always "feel" close to God. But I can say this honestly - after He has proven Himself to me over and over in my life, I finally can say that I rest in Him. What I mean is that no matter what happens in my life, I believe that He is in control and has a plan for my life - and my responsibility is to submit my will to His. When I do this, great things happen in my life. When I rebel against His precepts, I see the consequences - sometimes years later, but they crop up.

Everybody's bill comes due.
 

Danizar

New member
It's not that I doubt God's power. It's more His specific identity. And I really can't pin what I believe. I can say, "I believe that Christ is the Son of God and that he was raised from the dead" but in my heart there is still the shadow of a doubt. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. I mean, how many Christians do you see with enough faith to heal the sick or cast out demons, as Christ's disciples did? You'd think that with so many Christians, there would be more miracles.
 

Just_me_Mike

Well-Known Member
I will simplify it for you. Christianity is the only religion that requires you to do nothing. It is the only religion that says that God will come to you, and do everything (which Jesus did). My Christianity teaches that there are a chosen group of people (as spoken of in the old and new testament).

Bottom line is humans feel MUCH better when they can do x, y, or z and feel better about their efforts or contribution. My Christianity says come as you are and beg for forgiveness. If you are one of God's chosen He will change your heart. There is nothing you can do, sorry.

There is no hell in the sense that you might think. Hell is destroyed in revelations by the lake of fire. And the lake of fire is just a symbol to indicate those that enter it, will never ever exist again forever.

Any questions let me know...
 

Danizar

New member
Hell gets destroyed? So then what is this "Outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth"? And the rich man from The Rich Man and Lazarus parable. Where does he go?

And if Jesus died for the world, why is everyone not saved? Was Jesus' sacrifice only good enough for certain people?
 
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Just_me_Mike

Well-Known Member
Hell gets destroyed? So then what is this "Outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth"?
Outer darkness is a picture that they will never be part of God's world again.
In other words, think about it. There is suppose to be at the same time a lake of fire, and also outer darkness. So which is it?
Rather they are both languages used to typify the certainty and completeness God has in view.
It is to say that this second death is more than just death. It is a situation where you have chosen to not live, and not partake in the gift God has allowed us to experience for a little while. This second death will be annihilation.
Just pictures to show when it is over it is over.

Which for many this is great comfort, because they don't like God, and say "fine, I can just live and enjoy this life. I will face a judgment from God, and then be annihilated. No big deal"
So there will be no suffering for eternity, there will be a non-existance for eternity though.
If you need help understanding them, we can do a one on one discussion of revelations, but it is your choice. It is just my views, and I think I have the spirit of God in me, but many will argue with that. No big deal either way.
 

Just_me_Mike

Well-Known Member
But how can they weep and gnash their teeth if they've been annihilated?
You have to remember, it says there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. This will take place as these things are happening. Once it is over though, it will be as though they never existed.

You see the weeping and gnashing of teeth is going to be caused from a great many people who thought they were Christians. They are going to be very confused in that day, and will be cursing God for where they end up. So what you are asking will happen during the transition from judgment to the second death. After this happens though, it is over.

If there is a particular verse you are referring too and my answer does not address it, please post it for me and we can look at it in detail.
 

Just_me_Mike

Well-Known Member
Are you familiar with the bible at all? It would help me to know how best to explain things by knowing your level of experience with the bible. Thanks.
 

Danizar

New member
I know that it is "better to enter life maimed or lame than to have two hands or two feet and to be thrown into the ETERNAL fire." (Matthew 18:8)

I am fairly familiar with the Bible as a whole but haven't had an in-depth reading recently.
 

Just_me_Mike

Well-Known Member
I know that it is "better to enter life maimed or lame than to have two hands or two feet and to be thrown into the ETERNAL fire." (Matthew 18:8)

I am fairly familiar with the Bible as a whole but haven't had an in-depth reading recently.
You say "yoou know" and then stress the word ETERNAL.
We can spend some time and look at what eternal can mean, but being thrown into the eternal fire indicates that God's judgment is forever.

When broken down eternal means forever, and fire means judgment. If God's judgment is destruction forever, or darkness forever, or fire forever, it means it is absolute, and is stressing there is no more chance to come back.

Make sense?
 
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