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Requesting Possible Answers from Christians

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
It matters, sir, because we are creatures that:

  1. Live to be maybe 100 years old (if we are lucky)
I'm not sure how this is relevant at all. The question is whether God is faithful to his promises. We find that God has made a series of promises in scripture, each one fulfilled. There are a couple outstanding, but then they involve God's actions at the end of the current world. So how is our rather short timespan an issue?

2. Make up stories to explain thing - not all of which are true or accurate

How does that affect God's faithfulness? Still confused....

3. Have brains that require proof and evidence before something can be believed (or do you think a judicial system with a jury of one's peers is simply a form of entertainment?)

That may be true of some things, but not all. In fact, most of what we believe we believe without evidence or proof. It's only with respect to very high-order theories that we require anything like evidence. For instance, I know where I was last week at this time. I have no proof or evidence (pictures, witnesses, traces), just a memory. Yet my belief about where I was last week can't be faulted on that account.

That's not to say my belief about God's faithfulness is exactly the same as memory, but perhaps it is similar in that it doesn't require the sort of evidence you speak of. That said, we DO have evidence, at least insofar as scripture is a chronicle of God's promises and fulfillments. If it is, then we have evidence. You may not be inclined so to view it. Nevertheless, for a Christian, it does constitute evidence.

4. Don't give a tinker's cuss about what may or may not have happened 2,000 years ago untill someone comes to us with a story that requires a decision to be made lest we spend eternity in Hell

First of all, you've completely misread the resurrection story. I won't deal with all the errors save one. That is, the death and resurrection of Jesus is absolutely crucial to the question whether God is faithful to his promises. So if the question is "Is God faithful to his promises?" you'd better give a tinker's cuss.

5. Cannot even agree that such a person as God exists let alone what he is like or what promises he has made or kept.

Fine. But the question is whether God is faithful to his promises. If that's the case, his existence must be presumed for the purpose of argument. If you don't believe in God, you certainly can't have a problem with God being faithless.
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
Christianity seems to me to be the most difficult religion to follow. In Islam, you follow certain laws and you're good to go. If you're a Jew, you're one of God's chosen people. If you're a Buddhist, you meditate and get enlightened. But faith is different. You can't give yourself faith. God is supposed to give you the Holy Spirit, right? Well, I don't feel that I have been given faith. So now what? Am I going to Hell? I can't DO anything, because I'm supposedly saved by grace through faith, which I don't seem to have. And I have asked God to send His Holy Spirit down upon me, believe me I have. But He hasn't. I can say I'm a Christian all I want, can recite the Creed till my jaw hurts, but it won't change what's in my heart, which is naturally skeptical (and I find it rather hard to believe that so many others in the world are all wrong). I even considered somehow brainwashing myself (didn't try that, though). Don't get me wrong, I love Christian ideals, and as for those Christians whose lives God has touched, who have a "relationship" with Christ, I ENVY you. So am I doomed? A little help here...

I can't tell you how often I feel as you do. The only time I truly feel at peace with my faith, is when I focus on the simplicities. God is love and we are to live in love, forgive others and try to be the best that we can be, in him. If I cling to this, I'm at peace. I try to let all the rest go because it drives me crazy.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
I can't tell you how often I feel as you do. The only time I truly feel at peace with my faith, is when I focus on the simplicities. God is love and we are to live in love, forgive others and try to be the best that we can be, in him. If I cling to this, I'm at peace. I try to let all the rest go because it drives me crazy.
Amen, kiddo.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
It's not that I doubt God's power. It's more His specific identity. And I really can't pin what I believe. I can say, "I believe that Christ is the Son of God and that he was raised from the dead" but in my heart there is still the shadow of a doubt. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. I mean, how many Christians do you see with enough faith to heal the sick or cast out demons, as Christ's disciples did? You'd think that with so many Christians, there would be more miracles.

It's tempting to me to jump in here and proselytize for atheism, but I don't think that's what you're asking for.

I guess what I don't get is, if you don't believe that Christ is God, the path to salvation and so forth, then what are you worried about? Are you scared of something? What?
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
My sister has seven children ranging from 6 to 23. Her sixth child was perfectly normal until the age of 2 at which time he started having seizures. It was extremely difficult for the family but mostly for my brother-in-law (who is also my best friend). The nature of the problem was this.

All his adult life he had been more than exemplary in his Christian life and he believes with all his heart that God loves him. And he is deeply devoted to and loves God. He sees God as a father, just as Jesus taught.

Then this happened. I heve never seen a man more tormented but his torment was only partly because of his helplessness to heal his son. I think that a greater part of it was a sense of utter betrayal by God who did absolutely nothing to ease the suffering.

It is one thing to have a deity that demands obedience and worship. It is entirely different if you heave the label "father" into the list of God's attributes, however, because we all know what a father is and how a good father behaves toward his children. Perpetual silence and complete absence of intervention are not among those qualities.

My point is that my children have faith in me not because of something they have read but because of experience. They know me. They know that they are not going to go hungry. They know that when they make big mistakes (e.g. having a child out of wedlock) that I am not going to hold their guilt over their heads and that I will do everything in my power to help them. They know this because of who I have been to them and how I have acted in the past.

If I did nothing when they were in need and remained silent, it would not be right of me to criticize them for not trusting me or having faith in me. No amount of clinging to one's faith in the face of the obvious realities is helpful.

To my mind, faith based on someone else's reports about what a person is like is not really the kind of faith that matters. If someone told me that if I was ever unable to pay the bills that Kathryn would give me money, I'd say, "Wow. That's cool." I wouldn't doubt it for a second. But if I show up at your door and you hide from me or refuse to help me then of what value was that faith? None that I can think of.

I tend to believe that Danizar may be struggling because of these kinds of reasons.

Paul describes faith as "the evidence of things not seen" but very few people are capable of really holding to such a definition of faith. If we did, we'd never question whether George Bush or Ted Kennedy or Madelyn Murray O'Hare were good people or not. We'd simply grab an opinion and no matter what happened we'd still believe only the best (or worst) about those people.

Your children trust you to take care of them, but sometimes they cannot see the logic in your discipline and decisions, I'm sure. Sometimes in your parenting, you have had to administer rules or consequences that I am sure they haven't understood - but hopefully in the long run, they have seen the wisdom in your judgments in their lives.

My youngest daughter had a birth injury that caused her to have up to 40 seizures a day for the first four months of her life. Her doctors told me that in all probability she had cerebral palsy and would probably never walk. Believe me, I was ****** at God.

I was so furious and felt so impotent about this, that I could hardly sleep, hardly function. I remember specifically one night, somehow I ended up sitting on top of my washer, screaming at God and literally shaking my fist in his face.

But I had to reach a point where I acknowledged that God loves me, and loves my daughter, more than I can fathom, that He is infinitely just and infinitely wise, and I cannot fully grasp the depth of His wisdom. I had to come to a point where I accepted this - the point where I couldn't say, "Please heal my daughter!" because that might not be His will. I had to come to the point of acceptance of His will, whatever that will might be. Soon my only prayer for my daughter was visual - I prayed the image of laying my daughter in God's lap. Period.

It was only when I reached this stage that I could find any peace.

Now the really cool part of this story is that at the age of eight months, my daughter's seizures suddenly stopped. Within 6 weeks, she caught up totally in development and gained about three pounds. It was truly amazing. Her team of pediatric neurologists absolutely could not explain this recovery. In fact, at her final check up with them, when she was about a year old, the head neurologist actually chased us down in the parking lot afterwards, with tears streaming down his face, and told us, "I just wanted to tell you what this means to me - I see so much tragedy in my line of work. To watch this unexplainable healing take place has given me the strength to go on."

Now - maybe, just maybe, God allowed us to suffer in order to give this wonderful physician the little bit of encouragement he needed to continue his work for other children. I don't know. I may never know.

I had to get to the point where WHATEVER GOD DECIDED was OK - even if He decided that my daughter would be in a wheelchair the rest of her life.

That's what faith is in my book.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
My point is that my children have faith in me not because of something they have read but because of experience. They know me. They know that they are not going to go hungry. They know that when they make big mistakes (e.g. having a child out of wedlock) that I am not going to hold their guilt over their heads and that I will do everything in my power to help them. They know this because of who I have been to them and how I have acted in the past.

I had to comment a bit more on this point:

I have faith in God because of what He has shown me of His character as well. I know that God's will is what is best in my life. You know what though - God may allow me at some point to go hungry. I am OK with this because God sees the bigger picture and I can't from my perspective. God may allow me to go hungry due to my own actions or misjudgments - or He may shield me from some of the possible consequences of my actions. But my suffering may help someone else - it may be what is required in order to fulfill a larger plan.

In other words, it's not all about me.

When my 19 year old daughter got pregnant and wasn't married - in fact, she had already broken up with the guy before she knew she was pregnant - I still loved her. I helped her in many ways but I also allowed her to live with the ramifications of her actions. We didn't have room for a baby in our house. I helped her find an apartment, line up medical care, and furnish her new place. We actually found her an apartment next door to the Catholic church - and the church hired her as a receptionist at the church office. Talk about love! Those nuns and priests took her under their wings with such joy and devotion - it was beautiful. Never was an expectant mother more spoiled.

I could have allowed her to quit working and live at home, and raise the baby in our home. We could have made it work, but I felt it would have encouraged her to remain a child/teenager rather than to become a mother.

Some might say that I "kicked her out," but my daughter knows that I allowed her to accept her new responsibilities, and I helped her grow into motherhood rather than enable her to continue to be irresponsible.

I cannot tell you how proud I was of her. And still am. She blossomed into a woman right before my eyes, and today is married to a fine Christian man. He totally accepts her oldest daughter as his, and they have three more children together (just adopted a son from Korea in fact). She's now a stay at home mom and couldn't be happier. What attracted her husband to her was her independence, her sense of responsibility, and her strength.

Frankly, I don't think she would have become as strong and independent if I had allowed her to live at home and have the baby.

God operates similarly in my life. When I make mistakes, He doesn't necessarily let me off the hook. But He gives me the tools to survive and thrive.

When I handled this issue with my daughter, I looked to God's example of fatherly love in my own life for guidance.

It worked beautifully.
 

Man of Faith

Well-Known Member
To me Christianity is the easiest religion to follow, all you have to do is repent and put your faith in Jesus alone to save you from hell. You can have assurance of salvation by your love of others, your hatred of the things that God hates, your communion with other believers, and your growing Christ like as time goes by. Other religions require that you do tasks and activities and in the end you hope that your good outweighs your bad, that is not any type of assurance.

You must come to Jesus with the attitude of child like faith. Yes everyone has some doubts about everything that requires faith but you are given the assurance of your salvation and can see the fruits of the Holy Spirit if it is real. If a person is sincere then God will save them because he will not reject a contrite heart.
 

Heneni

Miss Independent
Christianity seems to me to be the most difficult religion to follow. In Islam, you follow certain laws and you're good to go. If you're a Jew, you're one of God's chosen people. If you're a Buddhist, you meditate and get enlightened. But faith is different. You can't give yourself faith. God is supposed to give you the Holy Spirit, right? Well, I don't feel that I have been given faith. So now what? Am I going to Hell? I can't DO anything, because I'm supposedly saved by grace through faith, which I don't seem to have. And I have asked God to send His Holy Spirit down upon me, believe me I have. But He hasn't. I can say I'm a Christian all I want, can recite the Creed till my jaw hurts, but it won't change what's in my heart, which is naturally skeptical (and I find it rather hard to believe that so many others in the world are all wrong). I even considered somehow brainwashing myself (didn't try that, though). Don't get me wrong, I love Christian ideals, and as for those Christians whose lives God has touched, who have a "relationship" with Christ, I ENVY you. So am I doomed? A little help here...

You have been praying for the HS and you feel you have not received him. We can quickly determine whether you have or have not.

When you sin, do you feel remorse, does it affect your conscience? Are you able to repent?

Heneni
 

Bware

I'm the Jugganaut!!
But Christianity states that salvation only comes through grace by faith in Christ, right? The problem is, I don't really know what I believe that has not been somehow proven, including the validity of any one religion, but I still don't want to go to Hell.
Maybe you should do a little research outside of the Bible. I went through the same thing at one point in my life. I had to set it down and look around and figure out within myself what I truly believed. Only then could I feel truly complete, that what I believe is not "wrong". You don't have to believe a certain thing just because you are told to, you have to decide for yourself what is in your heart.
 

Danizar

New member
I guess what I don't get is, if you don't believe that Christ is God, the path to salvation and so forth, then what are you worried about? Are you scared of something? What?

Yes. Hell.

Great story, Kathryn!

One big problem I see is that, if I were born in a different place or time, odds are I wouldn't be a Christian. So I think, would I then be doomed, simply because I was brought up as a Muslim or a Hindu?

Situation: You are a Muslim in a village during the Crusades. Crusaders sack your village and kill your family. Are you ever going to become a Christian after that?

The thing is, Christianity just seems so exclusive, but most Christians wouldn't be Christians if they lived in different environments. Two people could be almost completely alike in every way, but one is brought up to be a Christian, another something else. Each are equally dedicated, but only one gets to go to Heaven. It just doesn't seem right.
 
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Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I believe that God is totally just and totally holy. I trust Him entirely with the souls of those who have never heard of Jesus Christ. I do not believe that only Christians will enter paradise - I believe though that those who actively reject God are probably not going to enter paradise. But even then, I am not interested in judging them or the destination of their eternal soul - I will leave that up to God.

It's my responsibility to live as I best understand that God wants me to live, and to share the good news of Jesus Christ with others (preferably through my actions before through my words) in the hope that their lives will also be enriched. What happens after that is in God's hands.

I do believe that Christ died for the entire world and that each life is precious to Him.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
The thing is, Christianity just seems so exclusive, but most Christians wouldn't be Christians if they lived in different environments. Two people could be almost completely alike in every way, but one is brought up to be a Christian, another something else. Each are equally dedicated, but only one gets to go to Heaven. It just doesn't seem right.
If it doesn't seem right, Danizar, it more than likely isn't right. After all, wouldn't you think the Christian God would be a little bit more... uh... "Christian" than that?
 

slave2six

Substitious
First of all, you've completely misread the resurrection story. I won't deal with all the errors save one. That is, the death and resurrection of Jesus is absolutely crucial to the question whether God is faithful to his promises. So if the question is "Is God faithful to his promises?" you'd better give a tinker's cuss.
Well, if you take it as the hucksters offer it, yeah, you're right. But have you examined the foundations of that faith lately? They are, well, entirely mythical and so whatever meaning you put into your saving the world story, it's all based in a myth (as can easily be proven.)

Ender Wiggin also saved the world and resurrected the Hive Queen while also bringing knowledge and enlightenment to the Pequenos. It is a moving and gripping tale - but it's still fiction.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Define "we." Certainly I (and many others on this forum) are not included in that group.
Well since the title of the thread requests answers from Christians, why on earth would you expect to be included in the group mentioned as "we"? Don't tell me that's too complicated for a person of your obviously superior intelligence to comprehend.
 

slave2six

Substitious
Your children trust you to take care of them, but sometimes they cannot see the logic in your discipline and decisions, I'm sure. Sometimes in your parenting, you have had to administer rules or consequences that I am sure they haven't understood - but hopefully in the long run, they have seen the wisdom in your judgments in their lives.
Because they see me, hear me, touch me and on occasion (when I've been working very hard) smell me. They experience me in all the ways that humans are capable of experiencing the universe we live in.

If I had mailed in my sperm and written a book on how my kids should live and left it to my wife to raise them according to the book while I watched then via video feeds, I would be nothing more than an idea to them. They would each have their own idea of what I am really like and would even disagree on some points that are important and yet I would not be there to set things straight for them or to allow them to discover the truth about me by mutual experience. I would certainly not have a right to claim the title "father" would I?
 

slave2six

Substitious
I had to get to the point where WHATEVER GOD DECIDED was OK - even if He decided that my daughter would be in a wheelchair the rest of her life.

That's what faith is in my book.
How would that differ from leaving God out of the equation and simply accepting that some things happen while other things don't?
 

slave2six

Substitious
I have faith in God because of what He has shown me of His character as well.
If we are going on personal experience then I have quite a lot to say about God's character through my own experiences as well as many others that I know and most of it is very bad indeed.
 
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