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Religious accountability

nightwolf

Member
What do you mean by plays on the world stage ?

I think wars should be tried best to be avoided and I am sure we agree on that.

I mean the religion should not play on the world stage.

I mean religion should be local based. We should not have Biden rallying the Christians using Christian terms. The Islams,Muslims,Hamas,Israel,Zionist governments (especially) just need to get off the world stage.

That alone right there would make the world a more peaceful place.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I mean the religion should not play on the world stage.

I mean religion should be local based. We should not have Biden rallying the Christians using Christian terms. The Islams,Muslims,Hamas,Israel,Zionist governments (especially) just need to get off the world stage.

That alone right there would make the world a more peaceful place.

Don't you think that is a difficult challenge at the very least? There is a powerful drive in humans to try and encompass the widest possible range we can conceive. It is just unnatural to feel so content with localness.
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
I mean the religion should not play on the world stage.

I mean religion should be local based. We should not have Biden rallying the Christians using Christian terms. The Islams,Muslims,Hamas,Israel,Zionist governments (especially) just need to get off the world stage.

That alone right there would make the world a more peaceful place.

Well I don't agree on that because as a muslim, Islam is not created by man or created for a specific region, it is sent from God and passed through the prophets for the WHOLE humanity.

So we should spread this message PEACEFULLY of course because Islam, just like all other religions are against any form of violence.

What would make the world a more peaceful place if that if all people had one of these three things

1- Religion that deters them from violent acts

2- Laws that deters them from violent acts

3- Morality that deters them from violent acts

However humans are choosing not to follow any of these three and I think wars will continue as long as there are people on earth and there is a conflict of interest.


Too bad most of the wars are claimed to be for religious reasons which I am sure is not the case.
 

nightwolf

Member
Don't you think that is a difficult challenge at the very least? There is a powerful drive in humans to try and encompass the widest possible range we can conceive. It is just unnatural to feel so content with localness.

That is very true.

I believe it has to start at the person. The person needs to realize there are different strokes for different folks. Then that mentality can spread from there. Pipe dream I am sure.
 

nightwolf

Member
Well I don't agree on that because as a muslim, Islam is not created by man or created for a specific region, it is sent from God and passed through the prophets for the WHOLE humanity.

So we should spread this message PEACEFULLY of course because Islam, just like all other religions are against any form of violence.

What would make the world a more peaceful place if that if all people had one of these three things

1- Religion that deters them from violent acts

2- Laws that deters them from violent acts

3- Morality that deters them from violent acts

However humans are choosing not to follow any of these three and I think wars will continue as long as there are people on earth and there is a conflict of interest.


Too bad most of the wars are claimed to be for religious reasons which I am sure is not the case.

You are correct. But they use religion as a basis to garner the support of the people.

Here is logic. Religion is not for everyone. What your God says might very well not be correct for me. These Ideas that we all somehow have to conform to some ideology is just crazy.

Let's look at ISIS.

They don't hate me. But they might kill me because they believe they have a reason to hate me. They don't know me, but they have been told to hate me. And of course, you are right, there is an element of religion tossed into ISIS to make people angry.

Religion has become a tool. That is something religion should never be.
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
You are correct. But they use religion as a basis to garner the support of the people.

Here is logic. Religion is not for everyone. What your God says might very well not be correct for me. These Ideas that we all somehow have to conform to some ideology is just crazy.

Let's look at ISIS.

They don't hate me. But they might kill me because they believe they have a reason to hate me. They don't know me, but they have been told to hate me. And of course, you are right, there is an element of religion tossed into ISIS to make people angry.

Religion has become a tool. That is something religion should never be.

I agree on your last line. Religion has become a tool But that is not for religion to blame. It is humans that making it a war tool.

From what I know about the actions of ISIS, they are completely opposite of what they claim to be. They are the opposite of Islam. They are walking around and killing muslims too in the name of Islam. Can you imagine that
 

nightwolf

Member
I agree on your last line. Religion has become a tool But that is not for religion to blame. It is humans that making it a war tool.

From what I know about the actions of ISIS, they are completely opposite of what they claim to be. They are the opposite of Islam. They are walking around and killing muslims too in the name of Islam. Can you imagine that

That's true.

Do you not agree religion might not be for everyone?
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
That's true.

Do you not agree religion might not be for everyone?

From where I stand I see Islam as being the path Allah has chose for us.

Muhammad peace be upon him was the last prophet after Jesus and Moses and many more (peace be upon him). Quraan was the latest revelation sent to mankind and thus I believe that Islam suits all because it is from God.

However, one is free to follow or not to follow. We are in no place to force something on any one.
 

nightwolf

Member
There are an estimated 4,200 religions in the world. The one thing in common I am sure with all those religions is they think they are right.

As long as there has to be a right and wrong religion in the eyes of people, religion creates a problem. Religion has to realize that religion is responsible for many of the worlds problems. That fits in with the accountability.

As long as everyone thinks they are right there will be clashes. We as humans don't generally submit to other people ideas let alone religions. This creates hate no matter how the ball bounces.

The idea that one person is always right and one person is always wrong is, well, wrong. You are right, I am right and everyone is right as long as we are in harmony and understand everyone is right and doing what works for them.

On this forum that seems to work. Can we not spread this idea beyond this forum into the world?
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
There are an estimated 4,200 religions in the world. The one thing in common I am sure with all those religions is they think they are right.

As long as there has to be a right and wrong religion in the eyes of people, religion creates a problem. Religion has to realize that religion is responsible for many of the worlds problems. That fits in with the accountability.

As long as everyone thinks they are right there will be clashes. We as humans don't generally submit to other people ideas let alone religions. This creates hate no matter how the ball bounces.

The idea that one person is always right and one person is always wrong is, well, wrong. You are right, I am right and everyone is right as long as we are in harmony and understand everyone is right and doing what works for them.

On this forum that seems to work. Can we not spread this idea beyond this forum into the world?


We don't say that other people are wrong. There are many reasons why a person is a follower of X. Many people are not presented well with the idea of Islam.

What you are saying is not necessarily true. One have to look at what that religion teaches about dealing with people from other religion.

I don't think that anyone who is not following Islam is wrong. I think that they were not approached with the right Islam or they didn't hear about it.

We don't judge people, only Allah would judge them based on their intentions.

It is very nice from people to care about the peace of the world and not spreading hate but God has sent us to this earth and God didn't leave us to live as each one of us sees or wishes. God sent us guidelines and a way of life. God didn't leave us to live and be controlled by our desires.

This way of life must be found somewhere.

God has sent us to this world and there are right towards the Creator just like there are rights towards the creation.

To find that answer we must study religions and see what they teach. And Seek truth with your heart and the truth shall free you.



This is where I stand :)
 

Shuttlecraft

.Navigator
..This means that Christians will go to the end of the earth to create hate and fight this perpetual war on terror that can never be won. ..

Western politicians (including nonchristian ones) are obsessed with oil, they went into Iraq/Afgh to try to get their hands on it, but they're too dumb to realise that when they pull our troops out, the insurgents will simply blow up the wells and pipelines..:)
 

nightwolf

Member
Western politicians (including nonchristian ones) are obsessed with oil, they went into Iraq/Afgh to try to get their hands on it, but they're too dumb to realise that when they pull our troops out, the insurgents will simply blow up the wells and pipelines..:)

Very true.

And as we try to prevent other countries from going away from the dollar on oil take over governments, we create hate for our country.

This video is a good watch:

The Geopolitics of World War III | SCG News
 
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Shad

Veteran Member
Good for him, it shows how true Christians don't blindly follow everything in the Bible literally, but use their commonsense to interpret it.. But the Kaiser, Hitler, Mussolini, Japanese Empire, Saddam, Al Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS etc were disrupting the peace so had to be tackled to restore it.
The Kaiser never started the War, he was caught up in a series of events and alliances. Germany is blamed for the war as it was the only defeated power which retained it's status as a state. The Allies forced Germany to pay war reparations as no one else could. War reparations were created as France and the UK were bankrupt. America tried to stop this policy but were overruled by the UK and France. This set an enviroment in German which radical figures like Hitler would raise and find public support. There is also issues when the Allies carved new nations out of the German Empire like Poland. There was no peace but rather enforcement of blame, destruction of an economy and the division of a nation by people not from this nation. The Allies set the stage for the rise of radicals in Germany and the support of them by the population. Every single faction besides Japan was backed by it's own national or majority form of Christianity. One form fighting another form while all claim God supports their cause.
 

Shuttlecraft

.Navigator
..Every single faction besides Japan was backed by it's own national or majority form of Christianity. One form fighting another form while all claim God supports their cause.

"The target marker flares looked quite pretty floating slowly down in the night sky"
my mother told me about the time Hitler bombed her home city of Leicester, England in 1940.
She and her family survived but others didn't.
He carried on bombing British cities and firing rockets and flying bombs so we eventually had to do D-Day to go over there and stop him because it seemed the Christian thing to do..:)
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I can understand some of the frustration with some adherents to some religions. I myself have attended religious functions knowing full well that most of the attendees have no intention of actually following the doctrines of the religion they're "a part of." And - to take it even further, I myself have been a member of a church that I had some doctrinal differences with. I guess the church would consider them major differences, but I personally didn't consider it a major difference of doctrine - at least it wasn't major enough to me for it to negate the positives of the overall church membership.

My difference in doctrine was that I believe in the integrity of the doctrine of infant baptism. But at the time, the local Baptist church offered the best programs for my children, even though I was less than enthused about the overall experience for myself personally. I had too many doctrinal differences to become a Baptist myself - by that I mean to embrace the whole of Baptist doctrine - but I also had enough appreciation for the other things that particular church offered my family as a whole for me to attend there and for my children to take part in the childrens' activities...for a short period of time. I knew this wasn't going to be our "forever church home," and it wasn't - but it was good for what we needed at the time.

I guess that some people would judge me harshly for that, but I was at peace with my decision. In fact, I was able to thoroughly discuss some finer points of theology with my children - what I agreed with and disagreed with - and since they were all school age, they were able to interact with me and give their own opinions and insight - and it gave them something to think about that was deeper than video games or new tennis shoes.

I would not, however, become a member of that church - because I had fundamental differences with it. But I guess that people who saw me attending there didn't know whether I was a member or not - and I guess if they saw me buying a bottle of wine at the grocery store, they'd think I was a hypocrite. But frankly, I don't answer to any of them. Like I said, my conscience was clear.

I can only speak for myself, but I'll say this - yes, I do believe as a Christian, that God forgives all manner of sin. But I also don't believe that this offer of forgiveness gives us the right to be casual about "falling short of the mark." In fact, our wrong doings should be a reminder of WHY Christ's sacrifice was necessary, and this is a deterrent to me. Not that I don't ever sin - of course I do - but I do not use the "availability of forgiveness" as a license to sin.

In fact, I believe that God requires two conditions be met in order for us to be forgiven of our sins - 1) true repentance, and 2) forgiveness of others on our part. If a person is casual about sinning again in the same manner, then there is no true repentance at play. And if we harbor unforgiveness toward others, then we cannot expect God's forgiveness of our wrong doings.

Also, forgiveness requires confession, and sometimes not just to God. Sometimes we need to confess our wrongdoing to others, and ask their forgiveness.

And sometimes restitution is necessary as well.

Here's a good article I found on the topic of forgiveness. Short and to the point, and well referenced:
What Does the Bible Say About Forgiveness of Sins?

But back to my opening statement - I can understand the frustration people feel toward hypocrites - and there are hypocrites in every religion. And not only every religion, but every "belief system" and organization which requires one to adhere to certain moral standards (this is not limited to religious organizations). I think it's human nature, not limited to those who practice religion, to be much more forgiving of our own wrongdoings than we are of the wrongdoings of others.

Hypocrisy and judgmentalism are both equally distasteful to me.
 

Shuttlecraft

.Navigator
..I would not, however, become a member of that church - because I had fundamental differences with it..

Good for you, if we don't like any churches the Bible gives us plenty of free passes to walk out..:)-

"He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm" (Provs 13:20)
"Bad company corrupts good character" (1 Cor 15:33)
"Withdraw from proud disputers" (1 Tim 6:3-5)
"Keep away from profane babblers" (1 Tim 6:20/21)
"Don't sit with vain hypocritical evildoers" (Psalm 26:4/5)



We should only hang with people who make us feel good..:)

"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another" (Proverbs 27:17)
"If you hang around with losers, you become a loser"- Donald Trump
“Associate yourself with men of good quality, for tis better to be alone than in bad company"- George Washington
 
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