Religion and extra terrestrial life:

[dianaiad]

So.

We have discovered other planets...some which might even support life like our own. I'm wondering: my OWN belief system not only wouldn't be bothered by it, we've figured that there were lots of planets out there, "And worlds without number have I created," which do. Finding one that has people on it (sentient or not) isn't going to be a problem for us, nor will we have to change/adjust/fix our doctrines/beliefs in the face of it. WE will say "we told you so," actually.

What about everybody else? How DOES the discovery of new planets, and perhaps planets that have life...perhaps even sentient life...on them affect the various theisms?

 

[Quintessence]

Wouldn't matter to me. My religion is deliberately earth-centered, and deliberately locality-centered. The existence of other planets, or life (or lack thereof) on them is irrelevant to my traditions.

 

[Jeff Strehlow]

I don't think that finding life on another planet would affect Buddhism very much. Though there are gods/goddesses in Buddhism, the fundamental teachings of Buddhism doesn't depend on them and would not need to be changed.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I strongly believe there's life on other planets. Doesn't bother me at all. Just more glory to God through His wondrous creation.

 

[Cobol]

So.

We have discovered other planets...some which might even support life like our own. I'm wondering: my OWN belief system not only wouldn't be bothered by it, we've figured that there were lots of planets out there, "And worlds without number have I created," which do. Finding one that has people on it (sentient or not) isn't going to be a problem for us, nor will we have to change/adjust/fix our doctrines/beliefs in the face of it. WE will say "we told you so," actually.

What about everybody else? How DOES the discovery of new planets, and perhaps planets that have life...perhaps even sentient life...on them affect the various theisms?

These planets are multiple light years away, and have to be habitable for life. The chances of man developing the technology to get there are not good. I know god doesn't exist, so the impact on religion, if we ever make it there would be none. It would probably just expose how dumb we are, when it comes to afterlife.

 

[dianaiad]

These planets are multiple light years away, and have to be habitable for life. The chances of man developing the technology to get there are not good. I know god doesn't exist, so the impact on religion, if we ever make it there would be none. It would probably just expose how dumb we are, when it comes to afterlife.

You KNOW this, do you?

..................never mind. This isn't the thread to challenge that particular statement.

As for our never getting to one of these planets, I'll never say never. We won't get there in time for ME to up and say 'hiya,' certainly. However, we don't actually have to GET to one of 'em in order for their existence to affect basic religious understanding, seems to me.

Though I do wonder how you can figure that because YOU 'know' that there is no God, that your 'knowledge' of this means that life on other planets won't affect religion. For some reason that seems a bit, er...myopic? Atheism-centric? Self-centered? Not quite sure what the appropriate term would be here.

 

[Cobol]

You KNOW this, do you?

..................never mind. This isn't the thread to challenge that particular statement.

As for our never getting to one of these planets, I'll never say never. We won't get there in time for ME to up and say 'hiya,' certainly. However, we don't actually have to GET to one of 'em in order for their existence to affect basic religious understanding, seems to me.

Though I do wonder how you can figure that because YOU 'know' that there is no God, that your 'knowledge' of this means that life on other planets won't affect religion. For some reason that seems a bit, er...myopic? Atheism-centric? Self-centered? Not quite sure what the appropriate term would be here.

This is an example of an individual deliberately ignoring facts, and disregarding important information.

 

[dianaiad]

This is an example of an individual deliberately ignoring facts, and disregarding important information.

What 'facts' did I ignore, and what important information have I disregarded? Or were you referring to yourself here?

The existence or non-existence of deity isn't something one can 'know,' Cobol. One can believe one way or another, and trust (have faith in) one's beliefs, but "KNOW?"

Nope.

Shoot, we can't even KNOW that the sun is shining right now. We KNOW that it was shining about eight minutes ago, but right this second? Ask me in a few minutes.

I can't prove to you that God exists, much less that the idea of God I have is the right one. On the other hand, you sure as shootin' can't prove to me that one does NOT, so, er....people who say "I KNOW there is no god" sorta push my logical fallacy buttons.

As well, it really makes me go 'hmmn...' when someone declares that other people's belief systems and understanding of the universe are determined by what that someone 'knows.'

Put it this way: the religious are religious because they believe what they believe. Many of them will say "I KNOW" with every inch as much fervency as you have just done; how does YOUR opinion regarding the existence of deity affect how extra terrestrial life on other planets will affect those beliefs?

As far as I am aware, mine is one of the few belief systems that actually address the issue, and has done so for a couple of hundred years. Not that we make a huge deal of it; we certainly don't. It's a sort of 'by the way, God created a whole bunch of other earths, but we need to worry about ours." Others are 'not bothered by it." Still others will have to adjust to the idea, others will just deny the whole thing is a possibility, and many will simply put it in the same category as 'God put dinosaur fossils in the earth to test our faith."

And with all due respect, none of those opinions, attitudes and beliefs will be affected one way or another by YOUR 'knowing' that there is no god.

Indeed, I can't see how there not being a God would affect them, come to think of it. After all, if that was so, wouldn't His absence have affected the religions we have now, as things are now? Doesn't seem to have done so, from what I can tell; religions still exist, people still believe stuff, and every single one of us is yelling at all the others of us for 'disregarding facts" and "disregarding important information."

You know, rather like the way you think I am, and I think you are?

 

[Thief]

btw....God is an ET...by definition

 

[Thief]

and yeah.....you KNOW something without proof

certainty is the pivot point

 

[Geoff-Allen]

If you want an interesting perspective - try this site -

Life Throughout the Universe, the Omnipresence of Extrateresstrials

 

[Cobol]

I'll put my case forward for gods non existence against any claim of existence, but remember the burden of proof always lies with the one making the claim. This however is not the thread to do that.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

So.

We have discovered other planets...some which might even support life like our own. I'm wondering: my OWN belief system not only wouldn't be bothered by it, we've figured that there were lots of planets out there, "And worlds without number have I created," which do. Finding one that has people on it (sentient or not) isn't going to be a problem for us, nor will we have to change/adjust/fix our doctrines/beliefs in the face of it. WE will say "we told you so," actually.

What about everybody else? How DOES the discovery of new planets, and perhaps planets that have life...perhaps even sentient life...on them affect the various theisms?

". Finding one that has people on it (sentient or not) isn't going to be a problem for us,"

Really, and I suppose you think flying through 40 light years of space is also a simple feat.

Only 40 light years.

Exactly how far away is this system? How long would it take to get there?

A light year is a measurement of distance based on the speed of light. Light travels at 186,282 miles per second. By my calculations, that’s 670,615,200 miles per hour, 16,094,764,800 miles per day, and 5,874,589,152,000 miles per year. Thus, the TRAPPIST-1 star system is roughly 235 trillion miles away.

Most passenger planes top out at approximately 500 mph. The fastest aircraft, the X-15 plane designed by NASA and the U.S. Air Force, hit 4,520 miles per hour. NASA’s space shuttles reached 18,000 mph. At that speed, it would take approximately 165,000 years to arrive at Alpha Centauri and approximately 1,491,280 years to reach the TRAPPIST-1 system.

TRAPPIST-1 Is Only 40 Light Years Away! Wait. What?

Also even if a planet has life there is no reason to assume it has life with human like or greater intelligence.

It is fair more likely that you'll die before any type of meaningful contact with extraterrestrial intelligent life happens, if it ever happens.

 

[dianaiad]

I'll put my case forward for gods non existence against any claim of existence, but remember the burden of proof always lies with the one making the claim. This however is not the thread to do that.

You are quite right, Cobol. The burden of proof IS on the claimant. In this case, that would be you.

The only claim I made is that I believe in one. Here; I'll prove that to you.

I believe in one. there you go...proof.

Oh, and I claimed that the non-existence of God wouldn't make any difference to the way religions behave. After all, if His non-existence COULD do that, then...why hasn't it? If God doesn't exist, but religions and beliefs in Him DO, then how can his further non-existence make any difference at all? I contend that the fact that there ARE religions and theistic belief systems is proof that the non-existence of God wouldn't make a lick of difference to any theist.

Unless you can figure out a way to make His already non-existent state even MORE non-existent?

 

[dianaiad]

". Finding one that has people on it (sentient or not) isn't going to be a problem for us,"

Really, and I suppose you think flying through 40 light years of space is also a simple feat.

Wait. What?

Why do you think we would have to 'fly through 40 light years of space" in order to discover a planet that might...perhaps actually does, support sentient life? Certainly the scientists involved in looking for evidence of such aren't claiming that we must, should....or even CAN do this.

For that matter, of the considerably over 1,000 'exo-planets,' NASA says that there are very few that are in the 'habitable zone,' and none of 'em are within 40 light years. More like 500 light years. It COULD have life. It might not. It COULD have sentient life. It might not. Why is it important to you that it does not?

My question is a 'what if" sort of thing. We DO know that there are many, many planets out there. There could be at least one planet for every single star, at least. So...how likely is it that NONE of these billions and billions and billions of planets bear any life on them? What would this understanding, this likelihood, do to religion in general, do you think, or to specific ones (perhaps yours)?

I opened the conversation by saying that it would simply confirm something my own belief system has been teaching since it started in the very early 1800's....that we believe that God created many planets, and that living, thinking, reasoning beings live on them. So we haven't found any. We may not find any...but then again, we may. What then?

Also even if a planet has life there is no reason to assume it has life with human like or greater intelligence.

Well, no....but for most of my own lifetime I was listening to people tell me that A: there WERE no other planets, and B: even if there were WE would never find them. Well, hello....

It is fair more likely that you'll die before any type of meaningful contact with extraterrestrial intelligent life happens, if it ever happens.

Oh, I'm quite certain that I will die before this happens, actually, unless a visitor shows up in his star boat within the next five years or so. That's not what I asked in the OP, though, is it?

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Wait. What?

Why do you think we would have to 'fly through 40 light years of space" in order to discover a planet that might...perhaps actually does, support sentient life? Certainly the scientists involved in looking for evidence of such aren't claiming that we must, should....or even CAN do this.

For that matter, of the considerably over 1,000 'exo-planets,' NASA says that there are very few that are in the 'habitable zone,' and none of 'em are within 40 light years. More like 500 light years. It COULD have life. It might not. It COULD have sentient life. It might not. Why is it important to you that it does not?

My question is a 'what if" sort of thing. We DO know that there are many, many planets out there. There could be at least one planet for every single star, at least. So...how likely is it that NONE of these billions and billions and billions of planets bear any life on them? What would this understanding, this likelihood, do to religion in general, do you think, or to specific ones (perhaps yours)?

I opened the conversation by saying that it would simply confirm something my own belief system has been teaching since it started in the very early 1800's....that we believe that God created many planets, and that living, thinking, reasoning beings live on them. So we haven't found any. We may not find any...but then again, we may. What then?







Well, no....but for most of my own lifetime I was listening to people tell me that A: there WERE no other planets, and B: even if there were WE would never find them. Well, hello....



Oh, I'm quite certain that I will die before this happens, actually, unless a visitor shows up in his star boat within the next five years or so. That's not what I asked in the OP, though, is it?

"Why is it important to you that it does not?"

What a ridiculous question.

 

[sovietchild]

Wouldn't matter to me. My religion is deliberately earth-centered, and deliberately locality-centered. The existence of other planets, or life (or lack thereof) on them is irrelevant to my traditions.

What do you mean? Your religion does not recognize the existence of other planets?

 

[sovietchild]

These planets are multiple light years away, and have to be habitable for life. The chances of man developing the technology to get there are not good. I know god doesn't exist, so the impact on religion, if we ever make it there would be none. It would probably just expose how dumb we are, when it comes to afterlife.

How do you actually know it? You have feelings, can you touch them and can you see wifi?

 

[1AOA1]

So.

We have discovered other planets...

Another way of saying that is that the conditions of the observer combined with instrumentation which may be used have discovered "other planets."

 

[Stevicus]

So.

We have discovered other planets...some which might even support life like our own. I'm wondering: my OWN belief system not only wouldn't be bothered by it, we've figured that there were lots of planets out there, "And worlds without number have I created," which do. Finding one that has people on it (sentient or not) isn't going to be a problem for us, nor will we have to change/adjust/fix our doctrines/beliefs in the face of it. WE will say "we told you so," actually.

What about everybody else? How DOES the discovery of new planets, and perhaps planets that have life...perhaps even sentient life...on them affect the various theisms?

I don't see that it would affect much of anything. One thing I've read about regarding life on other planets is that, even if there is life on other planets, it may not necessarily be compatible with life on Earth. That is, even if we go to some other planet and visit, even if it looks habitable, there could be microbes or viruses which might be harmless to lifeforms which evolved on the planet, but deadly to us (and vice versa).

I think those of us who grew up with Star Trek and Star Wars might imagine outer space as a fun and exciting place, full of interesting aliens, fast spaceships, and all kinds of thrills and fun. But then I think of movies like 2001: A Space Odyssey, which shows space as a vast, mostly empty, and rather frightening place.

It makes me think that "God," if there ever was one, is probably dead by now. For all intents and purposes, we're living on our own on a tiny ball of mud inside a bubble of air. There may be other planets with sentient species in similar situations. But until we can find a way to communicate or travel through interstellar space, we're not going to be able to find out much more.