Relgious Society of Friends (Non-theistic Friends)

[SageTree]

Hey Folks. Not sure if I hope for this to transpire as more of a debate or discussion, so I'll risk it and put it in here.

This is an idea that has caught my eye for a long time.
To me Non-theism strikes me as not choosing to enter the debate of atheism or theism... it's not about 'Yes' or 'No', it's about 'I don't care or need to know', so to speak. The practices and inspirations I find with in my Path are not guided by the "God' that Spong describes below in this reading.

Here is that article:

From: Nontheistic Christianity

A few liberal Christian theologians, define a "nontheistic God" as "the ground of all being" rather than as a personal divine being.



John Shelby Spong refers to a theistic God as "a personal being with expanded supernatural, human, and parental qualities, which has shaped every religious idea of the Western world."


From a nontheist, naturalist, and rationalist perspective, the concept of divine grace appears to be the same concept as luck.


Many of them owe much of their theology to the work of Christian existentialist philosopher Paul Tillich, including the phrase "the ground of all being". Another quotation from Tillich is, "God does not exist. He is being itself beyond essence and existence. Therefore to argue that God exists is to deny him." This Tillich quotation summarizes his conception of God. He does not think of God as a being which exists in time and space, because that constrains God, and makes God finite. But all beings are finite, and if God is the Creator of all beings, God cannot logically be finite since a finite being cannot be the sustainer of an infinite variety of finite things. Thus God is considered beyond being, above finitude and limitation, the power or essence of being itself.


Secular humanist Sidney Hook wrote in an essay called "The Atheism of Paul Tillich":

With amazing courage Tillich boldly says that the God of the multitudes does not exist, and further, that to believe in His existence is to believe in an idol and ultimately to embrace superstition. God cannot be an entity among entities, even the highest. He is being-in-itself. In this sense Tillich's God is like the God of Spinoza and the God of Hegel. Both Spinoza and Hegel were denounced for their atheism by the theologians of the past because their God was not a Being or an Entity. Tillich, however, is one of the foremost theologians of our time.

For me, I experience God as something that is beyond the weight of the world that those three letters carry. Rather than a Noun God I think of God as a Verb, as Being rather than as A Being. Like to say God means that there is anything outside of existence that isn't. And that's not to say this can't/doesn't feel personal to me, as I believe I can deeply experience knowledge and connection with the world through uncovering layers of illusion that I'm somehow separate or different from the Universe Itself.

Perhaps I haven't summed this up 100% correctly, as it's hard to truly put the Truth into perfect word and order since they, themselves, have their own weight and meaning to each person.

Thanks for reading and discussion. I hope this can stay a discussion on many things and a debate, hospitable, and merely seeing that we are likely different, rather than being 'right' or 'wrong'. To me Truths can coexist.



From:Nontheist_Friend

A nontheist Friend or an atheist Quaker is someone who affiliates with, identifies with, engages in and/or affirms Quaker practices and processes, but who does not necessarily accept a belief in a theistic understanding of God, a Supreme Being, the divine, the soul or the supernatural. Like traditional Friends, nontheist Friends are actively interested in realizing centered peace, simplicity, integrity, community, equality, love, joy, and social justice in the Society of Friends and beyond.

From: www.nontheistfriends.org

Nontheistfriends.org presents the work of Friends (Quakers) who are more concerned with the natural than the supernatural. Some of us understand “God” as a symbol of human values and some of us avoid the concept while accepting it as significant to others. We differ greatly in our religious experience and in the meaning we give religious terms.
We are not a pressure group trying to move Quakerism toward nontheism. We bless what our theist brothers and sisters bring to Quaker meetings and worship. All Friends have much to learn from each other. We hope to strengthen the Quaker tradition of welcoming people of diverse religious experience and to show by example that this can include nontheists.
We are part of meeting communities that include theists and nontheists. Together we worship and love and cooperate, even as we differ on the particulars of our religious experience. Quakerism has been changing ever since George Fox had his first opening on Pendle Hill, becoming deeper and richer. We are all part of this living faith.

A while ago I started this thread as well if you'd like to check/post there as well:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-religious-debates/102299-non-theism-eh.html


:namaste
Thanks for your words and thoughts,
SageTree

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I've always liked the idea of Quakers...

 

[SageTree]

LoL as opposed to their actual existence?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I don't know. Never met a Quaker in person before.

 

[SageTree]

Are you sure?
I didn't 'know any Jewish people' either, until it came up one day.

 

[Matthew78]

I thought about becoming a nontheistic Friend. I recall reading about them in William Blum's memoir West-Bloc Dissident. I remember being very impressed with the simple piety of Friends. No hymns, no songs of worship, no hellfire sermons, or any of traditional elements of Christian worship. The way that Blum described the Friend's meeting was a simple gathering of Friends who sat silently, perhaps meditated, and no one said anything unless someone was motivated to speak about some issue. When the meeting was over, the Friends just simply shook hands and bid each other farewell, it seems.

I liked this kind of piety and I'm surprised this unconventional Christian group evolved to include membership from people of different faiths and nontheists. I don't see much point in joining the Freinds although I have the utmost respect for them. To me, if someone joined the Friends as a nontheist, it would simply be wearing a badge. It's fine if it means something to that person who joins but any nontheist can simply do what the Friends do in terms of charity, community service, and peace activism. I just don't see the point to joining them just to do any of this.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Are you sure?
I didn't 'know any Jewish people' either, until it came up one day.

Maybe, but in my circle of acquaintances, religious affiliation and debate tends to come up often.

 

[elmarna]

We have Quakers in the state of Pennsylvania.
While their extreme on piety, sense of service & temperence most people tend to regaurd them as odd AMISH or Meninite.
They are a very quiet folk & keep to themselves.
What i can recall because i have not met 1 in quite some time is that they tend to want to walk the walk & talk the talk in a worship of what they percieve as god's qualities.
While I do not personify god.-them seem to do this.
I tend to see god as the essence of life.
like a undertow in the water of life!
THANKS FOR THE THREAD!
GREAT!

 

[Storm]

I've known a few Quakers. Lovely folks, imx.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

We have Quakers in the state of Pennsylvania.
While their extreme on piety, sense of service & temperence most people tend to regaurd them as odd AMISH or Meninite.
They are a very quiet folk & keep to themselves.
What i can recall because i have not met 1 in quite some time is that they tend to want to walk the walk & talk the talk in a worship of what they percieve as god's qualities.
While I do not personify god.-them seem to do this.
I tend to see god as the essence of life.
like a undertow in the water of life!
THANKS FOR THE THREAD!
GREAT!

And oddly enough I have never (knowingly) met one. Mennonite frequently, Amish occasionally, but never Quakers.