Rejection of Christ

[wmam]

An interpretation of Messianic Christianity is his beliefs, no need to mark it away as foolish and alien :sarcastic

Actually, my understandings are not that of Messianic Christianity. I denounce Christianity as a whole, Messianic or not. But todah for the support.

I to rebuke those that speak ill of the Judaic understanding as well. Its so easy for others to attack rather than try to understand or even care. Goes along way in showing from whose child they belong.

 

[wmam]

AND WHAT PLANET ARE YOU FROM?:run:

We are from the place that we are all made. From dust we came and to dust shall we all go.

Well......It is messy.:run:

Then please clarify this by cleaning it up. I am a worthy student, I assure you. Though you may want to do so through PM's or other means for this is way off the OP.

 

[sojourner]

The sad fact is that the number of xian fundies is going up in America, while the number of "liberal" xians is declining. That fact alone says a lot about the religion.

You're being very myopic here. American Xy is not the norm, nor is it the standard, for religion. American Xy is very, very unique, both in its theology and in its praxis. The increasing number of fundies and the decreasing number of liberals has more to say about the political climate of the U.S. than it does about the Christian religion.

The American "way of life" -- (cultural norms, attitudes, social awareness) has more to do with shaping the unique American religion than the Bible does.

 

[sojourner]

It's hard to articulate this point but I'll try - Christianity seems to be founded partially on the concept that one must deny all other forms of deism and therefore all other deities in order to be rewarded with the promised salvation referred to in its texts, and on the concept that all people under the sun will come into the knowledge of their religion and therefore of Jesus. Therefore, Christians seem to automatically assume that a follower of any other religion has knowingly rejected their religion and therefore Jesus, and will summarily be punished for so doing.

It's interesting, then, to observe the statistics of the sheer volume of people throughout history and present day who will surely be forever tortured, simply for adopting the ideology of their own culture and families. I asked a "Hardcore Christian" once if he thought that all cognizant people who were not Christian would be tortured by his loving god & he immediately agreed. An overall percentage of the population of the world waiting in line to be thrown into the pit of fire prepared for us by our loving father would surely scare the hell out of any little kid I know.

I think that your perception of "pop" Christian theology is correct. Personally, I think that many American churches and believers take it to an unwarranted (and un-biblical) extreme.

I don't think that heaven is rewards-based. Heaven is a promise, made accessible to all through the faith of Christ. We don't believe in order to claim our ticket to heaven. We believe because we are his. We do good works because that's who we are -- not because heaven is what we'll get.

 

[logician]

Heaven and hell don't exist, of course, even the biblical references to such ideas are hazy at best.

 

[wmam]

I, again, see no where in the entire Scriptures does it promise us that we will go to heaven. I also do not see the understanding of most on "hell". It is my understanding that if we are chosen, then we would be allowed into the kingdom that will be here. Also, hell is no other than the grave. LOL.... we all that die, before the second coming, will go to hell. Unless of course you die by means that would keep you from being buried like eaten by a bear or something then that is "Death" and not "Hell" as in........

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

There is not even any guarantee that we will even be saved..........

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Joh 5:34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.

 

[sojourner]

Heaven and hell don't exist, of course, even the biblical references to such ideas are hazy at best.

...In your humble opinion...riest:

 

[logician]

When no evidence suggests that the miraculous is true, then the practical must be accepted.

 

[Defij]

When no evidence suggests that the miraculous is true, then the practical must be accepted.

You are looking for only empirical evidence I presume?

 

[Mister_T]

I don't think that heaven is rewards-based.

I don't think it is either. Although our idea's of heaven and hell differ, I'll back up that statement.

Christianity in America has invented it's own man-made salvation program. They have made Christianity a reward based concept: Do this, say this, believe this and voila! Salvation is yours. The reward of Heaven overides things such as compassion and understanding (and a lot of times logic). They have taken the position of judge and deemed themselves heaven bound and at the same time deemed other hell bound. When the fact is God has the final say on who goes and who doesn't. Not any human.

NO ONE passes judgement. The Bible clearly states that EVERYONE will be judged. No one bypasses this. If confession of belief guarantee's automatic salvation, then there is no need for judgement. And that notion is not ANYWHERE in the Bible.

 

[uumckk16]

Christianity in America has invented it's own man-made salvation program. They have made Christianity a reward based concept: Do this, say this, believe this and voila! Salvation is yours.

I'm just curious, since people keep on mentioning "American Christianity"...what's the difference between Christianity here and Christianity elsewhere in the world? A good portion of the Christian denominations practiced in the U.S. were founded in Europe (such as Catholicism and Lutheranism), so aren't they pretty similar?

I'm not trying to attack your statement haha, I'm really just wondering what the difference is.

 

[Nehustan]

I think maybe we should wait for Jesus to say who has rejected his teachings? There might be a whole lot of 'righteous' people with egg on their face.

 

[joeboonda]

I, again, see no where in the entire Scriptures does it promise us that we will go to heaven. I also do not see the understanding of most on "hell". It is my understanding that if we are chosen, then we would be allowed into the kingdom that will be here. Also, hell is no other than the grave. LOL.... we all that die, before the second coming, will go to hell. Unless of course you die by means that would keep you from being buried like eaten by a bear or something then that is "Death" and not "Hell" as in........

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

There is not even any guarantee that we will even be saved..........

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Joh 5:34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.

5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
(King James Bible, 1 John)
5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
(King James Bible, John)

 

[joeboonda]

Ok. The bit i've highlighted doesn't make sense to me. I know where the idea comes from, that if you reject Christ as your saviour then you reject his gift and so cannot be saved.

But, how can someone knowingly reject him? And more importantly who would?

Think about it, if you knew that Jesus Chrsit was the Son of God and you knew that you would not go to heaven if you didn't believe - who in their right mind would reject him?

Atheists don't know that Christ is the saviour, no one does - its a matter of faith. To the Atheist or the Muslim or the Buddhist, the evidence isn't sufficient to warrent belief in Christ as the saviour.
Knowingly rejecting Christ relies on the person actively believing in Christ, but then rejecting him anyway. No one knowingly rejects Christ, if they reject him its because they don't know.

Am I wrong?

Well, we will not be judged according to what we don't know. If one has never heard the gospel, one won't be judged for rejecting Christ, because they never did. If, however, one has the opportunity to hear the gospel, to have the Holy Spirit convict them that they are a sinner in need of a Saviour, and they reject Christ their whole lives until they no longer feel the Spirit knocking on their heart so to speak, and die having no payment for their sin, then they are lost.

The Bible says that in the fulness of time, (ie. Rome ruled a great part of the World and had roads, so the news spread quickly and easily) Christ died for us. Many people witnessed these things as Paul said, they were not done in a corner. We have the prophecies fullfilled from the Old Testament concerning Jesus, 27 fulfilled at the time of the crucifixion itself. We have the other prophecies, we have historical manuscripts, archeological finds, the scientific, medical, historical statements in the Bible, and many many other proofs, not to mention the changed lives, the schools and hospitals, etc, founded because of people with Christian principles. Something happenned 2,000 years ago to change the world, many regard the death, burial, and ressurection as historical fact because of the eyewitnesses and the written documentation, and the establishment of the Church, and many other such things. Peter said these were not cunningly devised fables, but that they were eyewitnesses to His majesty. These men saw it, and died proclaiming it. I would not die for something I knew was a lie, ether they saw the ressurrected Christ, or they did not.

Anyway, when we stand before God, we will see all the times He was dealing with our hearts, leading us toward Him, trying to show us the truth, and we will have no excuse. Many reject Christ because of pride, because of self-righteousness, and because they know if they accept Him, He will not leave them as they are, but will begin to mold them into His image, and they love their sin too much for any of that. So, people don't reject Christ because they don't know, they reject Him because they don't want to know.

 

[Mister_T]

I'm just curious, since people keep on mentioning "American Christianity"...what's the difference between Christianity here and Christianity elsewhere in the world? A good portion of the Christian denominations practiced in the U.S. were founded in Europe (such as Catholicism and Lutheranism), so aren't they pretty similar?

I'm not trying to attack your statement haha, I'm really just wondering what the difference is.

You ever hear of fundementalist? Majority of Christian churches in the U.S. are fundelmentalists. They're the ones always trying to censor everything, anti-gay movements and such. People usually associate fundementalists with American Christianity. Make sense?

 

[ibelieveinonegod]

also there is a difference between knowing that Jesus is our saviour and believing.
Believing requires action on our part. Even Satan knows that Jesus died for our sins. But he rejects Jesus. Once we have heard the truth, the Holy Spirit reveals the actions to be taken to accept Jesus into our lives.

 

[Mister_T]

He will not leave them as they are, but will begin to mold them into His image, and they love their sin too much for any of that.

What about Muslims and Jews?

 

[ibelieveinonegod]

What about Muslims and Jews?

Muslims do not worship my god. and the Jews were deceived by Satan, which Satan considered his biggest victory, but that just opened the door for the gentiles

 

[Majikthise]

Many reject Christ because of pride, because of self-righteousness, and because they know if they accept Him, He will not leave them as they are, but will begin to mold them into His image, and they love their sin too much for any of that. So, people don't reject Christ because they don't know, they reject Him because they don't want to know.

And some reject christ and any other god , diety or religion because they have correctly come to the conclusion that they are all contrivences of man. I was once christian and felt this so called love of/from god and realise now it's was just the comfortable joy of fitting in and having a bunch of other people thinking exactly the way you do. I now find that concept kind of scary, like mass mind control. Too many people I knew as fellow christians could really talk the talk but not walk the walk, including me. Why should you anyway? So much of the christian dogma is needlessly restictive and unfair to the point people are often hurt by it.
I believe that's why christians in particular tend to be so preachy, they can't stand the fact that anyone doesn't think like they do and it bugs them. Yeah yeah, you are worried about my eternal soul, stop worrying about me and get your own affairs in order.
You just can't stand it that some one really could be there and realise it is wrong so you keep trying to ram it home. Yeah, it works both ways, but I'm here now and I like it.

 

[Majikthise]

Muslims do not worship my god. and the Jews were deceived by Satan, which Satan considered his biggest victory, but that just opened the door for the gentiles

So much for the brotherhood of man. As an atheist I don't care who you are or where you came from as long as you are not trying to hurt ,kill or control me.