Regretting sex change

[dybmh]

this conversation began with regrets or dissatisfaction.

Dissatisfaction does not do justice to what is happening. That was the point of my original comment this morning.

 

[dybmh]

Some people go to hospital and get staphylococcus. Some people die. Mistakes happen, things don't go as planned. I had a weird something happen under anesthesia once, I was woken up due to severe chest pain and my heart rate and blood pressure spiked to dangerous levels, an effect that lasted for several weeks.
I also would have been "fine" (as in, not really averting or preventing anything) without my last knee surgery.
Psychotropic meds that overall have caused more harm than good (most recent was an long night of intense nausea and vomiting). Effexor especially is note worthy as it kicked me into a hypomanic episode.
My parents not letting me get my shins straightened as a kid, even as a kid I knew I needed that one and not having it has meant an entire life of physical pain for me. Even during my teens I'd hurt so bad I'd wonder if I'd be better off chopping them off.
And we can expand this to include cosmetic surgery. Those don't go well for some people. Amd people who get Violent J's facepaint tattooed on them, some regret that one real quick. But even less dramatic tattoos some people regret them, and in some places still it can have detrimental outcomes for those with them.
People are just suddenly picking on transgender care--while that has largely went ignored before very recent times amd everything else is just ignored--because of the epidemic of partisan rabies with RWers, as per their norm, are kicking a group who is already down and often can't do anything about it.

I'm sorry you went through this. And are still going through it.

It seems there is a growing need to address the gap in transgender care for young people who are at risk for severe regret. It seems like there is a pattern. It seems like there is vast room for improvement. And there should be a way to do this without compromising care to those who urgently need it.

My entire point in this, both in public, and behind the scenes, is to acknowledge there is an issue. And to show that just because my political adversaries are taking action on this, that doesn't mean that the issue itself is wrong. There are good, real, reasons to be concerned about young people making these sorts of changes to their bodies and to their lives.

 

[dybmh]

Generalizations are always bad. Here, a trans woman, who is now a woman.
Who is proud of being what she has become and she has never regretted bottom surgery...as Playboy photos show

Vittoria Schisano - Wikipedia - first transwoman on italian playboy cover 2016.

Ines Rau - first transwoman Playboy playmate ever. 2014. In her own words:

I started hormonal treatment at 16-years-old. I saw a group of different doctors, and with the support of my mom, dad and siblings, my body was ready for the reassignment. That's what I wanted the most, and it completely changed my life. I have never seen myself as something else other than a woman. I would have rather died than go through life as a boy. It was an extremely intense desire consuming me since as young as I can remember.​

​

trans is not a trend, says model ines rau

We talk to the model about fame, fairy tales and why we can’t ignore the trans community any more.

i-d.vice.com

​

Bingo! This is who she has *always* been and she knew it since as young as she can remember. That seems like a very good reason to make irreversible changes to the body and life. And the process started at 16. Gee. That's the age I was talking about too in the circumcision thread.

​

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm sorry you went through this. And are still going through it.

It seems there is a growing need to address the gap in transgender care for young people who are at risk for severe regret. It seems like there is a pattern. It seems like there is vast room for improvement. And there should be a way to do this without compromising care to those who urgently need it.

My entire point in this, both in public, and behind the scenes, is to acknowledge there is an issue. And to show that just because my political adversaries are taking action on this, that doesn't mean that the issue itself is wrong. There are good, real, reasons to be concerned about young people making these sorts of changes to their bodies and to their lives.

There's always room for improvement, and if this subject wasn't being driven by partisan loonies but instead by real facts and data then it would be shown how improvements have been made over the years. At one point in the past John Hopkins even closed its program for trangender care over poor treatment outcomes. But standards were developed, assessments and screenings made and decades later it's a very different scene and poor outcomes and regrets have been tremendously reduced and rare as far as overall trends go.

 

[dybmh]

Ines Rau - first transwoman Playboy playmate ever. 2014. In her own words:

here's an interview: It's about acting, but, she does talk about her identity a bit:

 

[dybmh]

There's always room for improvement, and if this subject wasn't being driven by partisan loonies but instead by real facts and data then it would be shown how improvements have been made over the years. At one point in the past John Hopkins even closed its program for trangender care over poor treatment outcomes. But standards were developed, assessments and screenings made and decades later it's a very different scene and poor outcomes and regrets have been tremendously reduced and rare as far as overall trends go.

How do you think is the best way to roll that out in a place like Kentucky?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How do you think is the best way to roll that out in a place like Kentucky?

I don't know. I haven't spent much time there (I think I've only ever just drove through it).
But if it's like Indiana I still don't know because that state is swamped with Confederate flag waving yokels who still get worked up over "race mixing" and vote for people like Pence.

 

[We Never Know]

Some people go to hospital and get staphylococcus. Some people die. Mistakes happen, things don't go as planned. I had a weird something happen under anesthesia once, I was woken up due to severe chest pain and my heart rate and blood pressure spiked to dangerous levels, an effect that lasted for several weeks.
I also would have been "fine" (as in, not really averting or preventing anything) without my last knee surgery.
Psychotropic meds that overall have caused more harm than good (most recent was an long night of intense nausea and vomiting). Effexor especially is note worthy as it kicked me into a hypomanic episode.
My parents not letting me get my shins straightened as a kid, even as a kid I knew I needed that one and not having it has meant an entire life of physical pain for me. Even during my teens I'd hurt so bad I'd wonder if I'd be better off chopping them off.
And we can expand this to include cosmetic surgery. Those don't go well for some people. Amd people who get Violent J's facepaint tattooed on them, some regret that one real quick. But even less dramatic tattoos some people regret them, and in some places still it can have detrimental outcomes for those with them.
People are just suddenly picking on transgender care--while that has largely went ignored before very recent times amd everything else is just ignored--because of the epidemic of partisan rabies with RWers, as per their norm, are kicking a group who is already down and often can't do anything about it.

"People are just suddenly picking on transgender care--while that has largely went ignored before very recent times amd everything else is just ignored--because of the epidemic of partisan rabies with RWers, as per their norm, are kicking a group who is already down and often can't do anything about it."

IMO its the sports and bathroom issues that set it off.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

"People are just suddenly picking on transgender care--while that has largely went ignored before very recent times amd everything else is just ignored--because of the epidemic of partisan rabies with RWers, as per their norm, are kicking a group who is already down and often can't do anything about it."

IMO its the sports and bathroom issues that set it off.

Except for years and decades there was not a whole lot about it. You rarely heard about it. Now the Reps are being told to hate trans people, and in the process making themselves look as is ignorant in the subject as a Young Earth Creationist is with evolution and biology.

 

[We Never Know]

Except for years and decades there was not a whole lot about it. You rarely heard about it. Now the Reps are being told to hate trans people, and in the process making themselves look as is ignorant in the subject as a Young Earth Creationist is with evolution and biology.

For years and decades there wasn't the sports or bathroom issues being pushed so....

IMO its the sports and bathroom issues that set it off. Those put it more on everyone's radar so to speak.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

For years and decades there wasn't the sports or bathroom issues being pushed so....

IMO its the sports and bathroom issues that set it off. Those put it more on everyone's radar so to speak.

You never heard of it before. That's the only difference. It occasionally, sometimes, came up when someone transitioned and it never made national attention like it does today.
Trans athletes. Same deal. Nothing new except the inflamed hatred of Republicans and Conservatives. They've became more aware of a few things, heard a few things, and act like everything is new and being pushed all because their dumbasses are late to the show.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

This isn't just any sort of regret. This isn't knee surgery regret. This is serious.

I don't think you get to wave our point away by saying 'This is serious'.

We were talking more generally that ANY human decision taken by a group of people will result in some regretting the decision.
The 'hey, some people regret it' is less informative than why they regret it, and whether a large portion regret it.

 

[dybmh]

I don't think you get to wave our point away by saying 'This is serious'.

We were talking more generally that ANY human decision taken by a group of people will result in some regretting the decision.
The 'hey, some people regret it' is less informative than why they regret it, and whether a large portion regret it.

The informative details are in this thread, if you choose to review it. This is not "ANY human decision". It is a serious decision, with serious consequences. Treating this generally, honestly, trivializes the choice people have made, their sacrifices and their struggles.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

The informative details are in this thread, if you choose to review it. This is not "ANY human decision". It is a serious decision, with serious consequences. Treating this generally, honestly, trivializes the choice people have made, their sacrifices and their struggles.

You're getting my meaning backwards. I'm not trivialising this or suggesting it's the same as <insert other decision here>.

The full range of human decisions involve elements of regret. That can be from choosing your lunch and getting food envy (pretty trivial) to invading Iraq in pursuit of WMD. The fact that some people regret a decision isn't informative. Why they regret it can be, and substantial numbers of people regretting can be (in the context of why).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The informative details are in this thread, if you choose to review it. This is not "ANY human decision". It is a serious decision, with serious consequences. Treating this generally, honestly, trivializes the choice people have made, their sacrifices and their struggles.

No, attempting to politicize our struggles by hyper focusing on a minority of cases is trivializing what we go through.
But we get trivialized at every step. Everybody else gets to have a good idea of who they are as a teen, except when you're trans. There are established guidelines and policies established by healthcare providers and researchers but RWers think they understand better. And despite the reality that the vast majority of transpeople show signs of improvement with transitioning we're supposed to pause and give consideration and place the exceptions on a higher platform than the majority of successes, despite the fact other medical treatments (even when done entirely for vanity and cosmetic purposes) don't get this treatment.

 

[dybmh]

No, attempting to politicize our struggles by hyper focusing on a minority of cases is trivializing what we go through.

I have no clue what the RWers are saying about basically anything. I lead a sheltered life. I'm not politicizing. I'm just presenting the information I'm finding and saying that there is a good reason for concern.

But we get trivialized at every step. Everybody else gets to have a good idea of who they are as a teen, except when you're trans.

OK.

There are established guidelines and policies established by healthcare providers and researchers but RWers think they understand better.

Are the guidelines being enforced? Who is doing the oversight? If not, would the trans community tolerate it? You seemed to be supportive of the Johns Hopkins Shut down for... what was it? 20 years or more? From my POV, there's nothing wrong with a temporary ban, just to setup up oversight. And I would of course, message to trans community that it was temporary. I would even right a sunset clause into the bill. That's me. But I have no doubt this would be vehemently opposed regardless.

And despite the reality that the vast majority of transpeople show signs of improvement with transitioning we're supposed to pause and give consideration and place the exceptions on a higher platform than the majority of successes, despite the fact other medical treatments (even when done entirely for vanity and cosmetic purposes) don't get this treatment.

The exceptions were/are being shunned and silenced. The fact I needed to go to archive.org to read about the detrans POV should confirm this. I got lucky that google had the article indexed. I think what you're perceiving as a higher platform, is natural considering the negative outcomes and the reactions of the trans community to the criticism. The right thing to do is acknowledge the issue. Otherwise people will over react.

Regardless. These people NEED a platform. They NEED support. Even if they are a minority. When has that even mattered? They need it especially because they are a minority.

Now. You're bringing up other medical treatments. Honestly, I don't care. Other is other. I don't do fairness. That's me. Case by case basis only. One group has it too hard? OK, let's talk about it. Another group has it too easy? OK, let's talk about it. "They have it easy, and we have it hard?" Too bad, that's life.

 

[VoidCat]

The exceptions were/are being shunned and silenced. The fact I needed to go to archive.org to read about the detrans POV should confirm this. I got lucky that google had the article indexed. I think what you're perceiving as a higher platform, is natural considering the negative outcomes and the reactions of the trans community to the criticism. The right thing to do is acknowledge the issue. Otherwise people will over react.

Regardless. These people NEED a platform. They NEED support. Even if they are a minority. When has that even mattered? They need it especially because they are a minority.

Now. You're bringing up other medical treatments. Honestly, I don't care. Other is other. I don't do fairness. That's me. Case by case basis only. One group has it too hard? OK, let's talk about it. Another group has it too easy? OK, let's talk about it. "They have it easy, and we have it hard?" Too bad, that's life.

I googled just now detransitioners. I hardly see any first hand accounts. But I do see a lot of articles on detransitioning and such. Most of it is folk trying to use detransitioning to scare trans folk into not transitioning.

To me this is heartbreaking. If I was a detransitioner I'd be disappointed with the fact that my story being used to harm a minority group. They do as you say need support. But they don't really get it instead rightwingers typically pick up such stories and use them to harm trans folk. And transfolk as a reaction may try to silence detransitioners because they associate their stories with rightwingers. This is what ive gathered. It's why I've hardly read up on detransitioners because every time I hear one get brought up it's typical as a scare tactic and as propaganda.

 

[dybmh]

I googled just now detransitioners. I hardly see any first hand accounts. But I do see a lot of articles on detransitioning and such. Most of it is folk trying to use detransitioning to scare trans folk into not transitioning.

To me this is heartbreaking. If I was a detransitioner I'd be disappointed with the fact that my story being used to harm a minority group. They do as you say need support. But they don't really get it instead rightwingers typically pick up such stories and use them to harm trans folk. And transfolk as a reaction may try to silence detransitioners because they associate their stories with rightwingers. This is what ive gathered. It's why I've hardly read up on detransitioners because every time I hear one get brought up it's typical as a scare tactic and as propaganda.

It seems like the best way to search is to go to youtube and search for "detransition". There are repeats, but just scroll past them. Skip the right wing stuff. I didn't see too much of it.

Also sub-reddit detrans.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Are the guidelines being enforced? Who is doing the oversight?

It's a medical thing. There's heavy oversight and harsh consequences for violations of what may be both ethical concerns and the law.
No, it's not perfect, but it's not some clandestine group enshrouded in mystery. It's like any other healthcare professional.

I have no clue what the RWers are saying about basically anything. I lead a sheltered life. I'm not politicizing. I'm just presenting the information I'm finding and saying that there is a good reason for concern.

They tend to like failures and pretend that's the norm, like they've been doing with masks and vaccines in regards to covid just to downplay it all amd say it was worthless and does nothing.
And it's always been the RW who attacks trans people, and looking for anything they can find to attack us.

From my POV, there's nothing wrong with a temporary ban

Yeah, there is when medical experts and organizations do not agree with it.
Healthcare should be about science and data, not politics.

From my POV, there's nothing wrong with a temporary ban, just to setup up oversight.

There IS oversight.

The exceptions were/are being shunned and silenced.

It's not that, it's that no other treatment gets the failures hyper focused on, amd it's never in context of the development of standards and how things have improved and the number of failed transitions is much lower. And it's not in the context of how rare it is in the overall picture.
It's no different then when the suicide risk is brought up, and how it's basically never mentioned that too tends to go down after transitioning. But research has consistently found this risk isn't from being trans it's from suffering other people.
And because of stuff like this. We don't get to just live. Such as, if a 16 year old boy says he wants to join the army and make it a career he gets mostly applause. But if he says he wants to be a girl then he just can't actually really know that for sure. We all know it's rude to pry into healthcare and best to let decisions be made between providers and patients, but when it comes to trans then suddenly every ignorant blowhole has an opinion and thinks it's bad and needs banned. ****, we can't even get treated without ******** having to say "you know some people regret this, right?" Do you tell chemo patients and people with stents some people regret those and they don't always turn out well? Of course not! That's between providers and patient, everybody else cam bugger off.

 

[Subduction Zone]

This came across on my news feed today:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/03/23/transgender-adults-transitioning-poll/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F397e73f%2F641c7f44f19a510b041fd92d%2F5e14dde59bbc0f414f1b260a%2F8%2F70%2F641c7f44f19a510b041fd92d&wp_cu=31c1633ebb1a69fe3ab37c22781ab5d3%7C9B92E6DBBBD0249DE0530100007F9FA6

The article explains how most trans people are happier after transitioning:

"Many have been harassed or verbally abused. They’ve been kicked out of their homes, denied health care and accosted in bathrooms. A quarter have been physically attacked, and about 1 in 5 have been fired or lost out on a promotion because of their gender identity. They are more than twice as likely as the population at large to have experienced serious mental health struggles such as depression.



Yet most trans adults say transitioning has made them more satisfied with their lives.
“Living doesn’t hurt anymore,” said TC Caldwell, a 37-year-old Black nonbinary person from Montgomery, Ala. “It feels good to just breathe and be myself.”

The statistics get a bit involved but it is rather clear that overall most are more satisfied afterwards. It is a complex issue. Not everyone is going to be happy. Some will even transition back.. There is no simple "You can and should transition or No, you should not and cannot transition" answer. The fact that some are going to have regrets does not justify ending this process for everybody. One does not make policy solely based upon minorities. Saying no one can transition because a handful truly regret it would be a gross miscarriage of justice.