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Redefining Contraception as Abortion

Comet

Harvey Wallbanger
Comet, redefining contraception as abortion allows insurance companies to stop covering it, and in some cases forbids it to state plans, upon which many low-income women (myself included) are dependent.

Insurance companies already HAVE THAT RIGHT, State laws are not superceded by Federal Laws in most cases, and many places which are all over would have no problem without the Federal Funding. Either way it will not pass with a democrat President coming in a week or so and a democrat ruled Congres.
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
I'm no legal expert, but it's my understanding that federal law ALWAYS trumps state law. Also, I'm on OHP, and I know quite well that contraception is covered, while abortion is not. This whole thing is just a cheap ploy to limit women's access to contraception.
 

Comet

Harvey Wallbanger
I'm no legal expert, but it's my understanding that federal law ALWAYS trumps state law. Also, I'm on OHP, and I know quite well that contraception is covered, while abortion is not. This whole thing is just a cheap ploy to limit women's access to contraception.

I'll break it down again as simple as possible, for that goes back the the Constitution:

10th Amendment:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


I could get more into the States' rights but that is not needed here.

Federal law does not prohibit abortion! Nor does the Constitution outlaw it for all.



 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
No, it doesn't. Nor have I argued that it does. Which makes that a total strawman.
 

Comet

Harvey Wallbanger
The whole thing is a cheap ploy indeed, nothing else needs to be said about it for it will never pass. Even if it did, it would be tied up in courts for ages that it would not effect any of us in this lifetime. As I said, it is a cheap ploy of a lame duck President for reasons I have already stated.
 

Comet

Harvey Wallbanger
No, it doesn't. Nor have I argued that it does. Which makes that a total strawman.

Strawmen burn easily. I was merely referring to the 10th Amendment for you had said:


it's my understanding that federal law ALWAYS trumps state law

It does not! Never has been, lest it goes against THE CONSTITUTION! ;)
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
My point, which you are steadfastly ignoring, is that there are plenty of laws forbidding abortion to be funded by state monies. By reclassifying contraception as abortion, they deny millions of low-income women access.
 

Comet

Harvey Wallbanger
My point, which you are steadfastly ignoring, is that there are plenty of laws forbidding abortion to be funded by state monies. By reclassifying contraception as abortion, they deny millions of low-income women access.

Sorry girlfriend~! I was not ignoring, but stating things. You missed the point that STATES CAN DO AS THEY PLEASE as the FEDs can't do anything about that lest it be UnCONSTITUTIONAL! :) That was the first point.

Secondly, this "law" will never pass! :D

Thirdly, even if contraception was deemed as abortion by the Feds: It does not effect my 1st or 2nd reason! Plus you miss the reading of the thread listed. The Federal Government does not forbid state funding of "abortion"... it holds to the CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT that religious freedom (a Constitutional Right) means that private companies and practicioners don't have to provide such services if they choose not to due to the FIRST AMENDMENT.
 

Vasilisa Jade

Formerly Saint Tigeress
Study after study has shown that they're more likely to delay sexual activity for a year or two and likely to have fewer partners when they do become sexually active, which might sound good except that when they do become sexually active they're less likely to use condoms, more likely to engage in unprotected anal intercourse, and less likely to seek treatment for STDs.

Abstinence-only sex ed isn't just a simplified, dumbed down version of sex ed. It's the imposition of religious belief into our education and public policy. They think that sex before marriage is morally wrong. So they don't want to teach kids about contraception because they think it will only encourage them to have sex. And they are definitely against teach about abortion because that to their minds is even more wrong.

The funding is going into drilling it into kids that sex before marriage is morally wrong.



Yep. This instills good intentions, then in the long run, promotes embarrassment, low self-confidence and confusion among other things. These girls have all kinds of crazy ideas in their head. I've heard some of them from girls who had them up there who hadn't even been to an abstinence class. "Oh I can't go to the health department and get free condom/bc/exams because so and so works there and they'll tell my parents/pastor/whoever."

"If I go someone could see me." and so on. It doesn't matter that the employees are bound by law to keep their mouths shut. The girls that are not lazy and aware, for whatever reason, can't bring themselves to go. Then they end up with std's or babies. In high school that scenario drove me insane. Some girls like that were my friends.

I have been sexually active since I was 15. Looking back now, that's kinda crazy. But when I became active, I always used protection. One time when the condom broke, as hard as it was, I took myself up to our health department and got morning after treatment, at which time I learned I could start birth control, get regular exams, and take sexuality classes free of charge. I was the only one out of all my friends that did that, and now being almost 23, I am the only one without surprise children. It was hard at first, but overall it was so easy and such a large blessing. I want to make sure my family is planned and created at a time in my life when it can be the happiest possible.

Any move to attack such things, even if it is a feeble move, blows my mind. And remember that as pathetic of an attempt as this was, it was still an attempt by one of the most powerful people in the country.



Comet, redefining contraception as abortion allows insurance companies to stop covering it, and in some cases forbids it to state plans, upon which many low-income women (myself included) are dependent.

And if any move such as this slips through the cracks, 10 times as many people as my stupid friends will join them in their position as teenagers.

Federal law does not prohibit abortion! Nor does the Constitution outlaw it for all.

Lacking prohibition still doesn't protect services from being made dam near impossible to receive.

Secondly, this "law" will never pass! :D

I agree. Thank goodness it probably won't. I knew that when I started the thread. My main reason was just to vent, and point out out incredibly blind, closed minded, and extreme our president for the last 8 years can be. We are lucky he didn't begin to feel passionate about contraception and selling public property 4 years ago, instead of a few weeks before he gets the bump.
 

Comet

Harvey Wallbanger
Abstinence-only sex ed isn't just a simplified, dumbed down version of sex ed. It's the imposition of religious belief into our education and public policy. They think that sex before marriage is morally wrong. So they don't want to teach kids about contraception because they think it will only encourage them to have sex. And they are definitely against teach about abortion because that to their minds is even more wrong.

The funding is going into drilling it into kids that sex before marriage is morally wrong.

i think this was posted by liluthu after midnightblue.... abstinence only sex ed isn't just for religious beliefs my friends!!!!!!!!!! Two cents, one cent, no cents...... Again, look at what I have said... please! These programs cost $$$$$$$$, programs to deal with teen pregnancy, adoption, etc... cost WAY TOO MUCH $$$$. Sure, we'll spend money on these programs but when they don't work... we look to cut somewhere else where people think it is better to cut that a "good program" like such.... of that doesn't work? Well, it is the fault of x, y, or z! Cut that or adopt this program to fix that!

As one who knows, let me say this: If you don't believe me look up how hard it is to adopt a child in the USA! Why do you think many go overseas to adopt!?!?!?!? I believe I read a post that Liluthu and Midnightblue posted that they can relate to that at least..... perhaps I was wrong on that, but I am right in all I say here.

Wasteful programs and wasteful spending lead to more wastefulness! In this case, it is the pendulum swing trying to "right" that which is for political reasons.... as I have stated before.

Two cents? One only needs one SENCE to see this!
 

Comet

Harvey Wallbanger
I agree. Thank goodness it probably won't. I knew that when I started the thread. My main reason was just to vent, and point out out incredibly blind, closed minded, and extreme our president for the last 8 years can be. We are lucky he didn't begin to feel passionate about contraception and selling public property 4 years ago, instead of a few weeks before he gets the bump.

I know, and I agree. Yet you miss two of the points I make!

1. LAME DUCK PRESIDENT! (reasons stated before!) Thus why it wasn't done, a lost cause but a good cause for his future! *one must see that*

2. I am a registered republican! I am a single WHITE MALE! Venting is all good and fine, but don't judge me! That is why you post this thread as well! Yet, I hope you know that all STRAIGHT WHITE MALE REPUBLICANS aren't how you view us in your heads! Some of us are smart, open-minded, and believe in the underlying truths of our founding as a nation!

"That all are created equal..."

"That amoung these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

THE 1st AMENDMENT!

The 10th AMENDMENT!

Need I go on? Don't view all of us the same, I don't view all of you the same. If we don't believe in each other and listen to each other...... we'll never find any common groung and thus those that we empower will empower us!

"A government of the people, for the people, and by the people...."

If we don't come together as people to change these things... we are lost.....
 

Vasilisa Jade

Formerly Saint Tigeress


i think this was posted by liluthu after midnightblue.... abstinence only sex ed isn't just for religious beliefs my friends!!!!!!!!!!

Jeezus Comet you use a ton of little italic and bold and underlining thingies :p

I know it can't be all about religious beliefs, but they are bound to be in there somewhere. I agree with you. I see where it is about the money and politics. Religious beliefs here, I think is used as a tool. Just like with most other things. It helps to fuel this wasteful program and helps keep it out of the line of fire. A lot of people won't trash it or look twice at it's ineffectiveness as long as it is viewed as "good."
 

Comet

Harvey Wallbanger
Jeezus Comet you use a ton of little italic and bold and underlining thingies :p

I know it can't be all about religious beliefs, but they are bound to be in there somewhere. I agree with you. I see where it is about the money and politics. Religious beliefs here, I think is used as a tool. Just like with most other things. It helps to fuel this wasteful program and helps keep it out of the line of fire. A lot of people won't trash it or look twice at it's ineffectiveness as long as it is viewed as "good."

My dearest Saint Tigress,

I only post in bold and underline and italic for when I copy or quote it makes my words do the same here.... I mean not to! If you only knew how many times I tried to change it even in my last post! :yes:

As for people seeing "good", yes... that is the problem indeed. People view things from THEIR perspective and not others.... yet, we must have a majority to move on. Sadly, from my WHITE SINGLE MALE REPBULICAN view.... I agree with most of you!

If we do not stop the pendulum from swinging, it will swing still. We must see eye to eye and come to an agreement where all have our FUNDAMENTAL *constitutional* RIGHTS, our RIGHTS GIVEN TO ALL by words said a time long ago that meant only "some" had those rights.... or all is lost. I don't wish to lose all that. I wish to see eye to eye and make sure ALL HAVE THE RIGHTS WE AGREE UPON!!!!!!!!!!!

(frubals my dear)
 

Comet

Harvey Wallbanger
If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irrate. :D

Then your God must hate children as thousands of others died to make the one that was.... What does it matter? It does not..... we should all just end the cycle and be happy again.... :yes:
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
How many people in the US actually support outlawing contraception? Like 5%?
This isn't outlawing contraception...

It, at least as it appears to me, is extending the protection that people who cannot participate in abortion enjoy to encompass those who cannot participate in distributing some forms of contraception...

edit: my apologies, I did not read the whole thread, so if this had been stated before... sorry...
 
Last edited:

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
It, at least as it appears to me, is extending the protection that people who cannot participate in abortion enjoy to encompass those who cannot participate in distributing some forms of contraception...
:confused: What protections?
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
:confused: What protections?
from the article:
Federal law already protects individuals who prefer to not participate in abortion services and many states have refusal clauses for either individuals or institutions that object to providing or participating in abortions.

As I read it, this would extend that protection to those(such as Catholics, and as far as I know we are the only ones that have policy against artificial birth control) who might feel their religion compels them to not be involved with the distribution of such...
 

MoonWater

Warrior Bard
Premium Member
from the article:


As I read it, this would extend that protection to those(such as Catholics, and as far as I know we are the only ones that have policy against artificial birth control) who might feel their religion compels them to not be involved with the distribution of such...

Wait a minute, I'm confused... why do people who wish to not have abortions need protection and what sort of "protections" are they being given and what would be the point in extending those protections to those who don't use contraception? it's not like they're going to be forced to have abortions or use birth control or anything. I'm just confused about this whole "protections" thing. Could someone more informed than I here maybe explain it to me, I really just don't get it.:confused::confused::confused:
 
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