Quran has the best guidance about war and peace.

[firedragon]

I know, I know, you're just asking questions in good faith

Okay so you don't know details or examples though you made a claim.

Thanks.

 

[Shaul]

How could history show what a text supports? That's superimposition isn't it?

Do you understand how the Qur'an is interpreted?

The historical record shows that the adherents of Islam practiced slavery and harmonized it with the Quran. It isn’t any superimposition.

 

[firedragon]

The historical record shows that the adherents of Islam practiced slavery and harmonized it with the Quran. It isn’t any superimposition.

How does that "history" interpret the Qur'an?

Can you explain? If you don't understand the question please do clarify.

 

[Shaul]

How does that "history" interpret the Qur'an?

Can you explain? If you don't understand the question please do clarify.

You keep trying to twist what I have said. I have never used the word interpret. I have said the historical records shows evidence that the adherents of Islam have supported slavery. There is no interpretation done nor required. The actions done are independently verifiable and are evidence.

 

[firedragon]

You keep trying to twist what I have said. I have never used the word interpret. I have said the historical records shows evidence that the adherents of Islam have supported slavery.

Ah. So what you say is that Muslims have practiced slavery, but earlier you said "imprecation o the Quran". No problem . If you are saying Muslims practiced slavery, it's true. Everyone practiced slavery. Maybe a few countries didnt.

There is no interpretation done nor required.

Okay. So now you are saying it's not about interpretation, just what people did. Hmm. Okay fine.

 

[Notthedarkweb]

There is two birds one stone approach. To show the Quran is the best teaching in regards to war and peace, p1 and p2 and p3 would be implied if I show that.

Also, Quran's approach to war and peace is that it teaches it very dynamically with a situation and many different situations. The situation thus has to be assessed and also who leads such things is very important.

If it fails in any of the situations to show best approach, then it fails in guidance. Also, again, leadership is a key issue to all this.

You haven't shown that. You have presumed p1 and p2 and are trying to prove p3.

 

[rational experiences]

All AH...breaths of life. As consciousness ours is lived by breathing. Father said so. Father originally was everyone's father as DNA did not infer a separate nation.

We only just all lived on earth. Same DNA.

Consciousness all things living that a human on the one O body earth in one nature realised. As men. Thinking. The theist.

Is just human realisation and expresses similar teaching advices when you compare literatures.

Only one. As said by two mutual equal lives as first a brother and a sister. Mutual. Equality. Exactness. Holy life exact. A first brother sister became first father mother also.

Not what was evilly said by two brothers....how to change ones holiness. By term a displaced human woman's life as zero space womb man's maths thesis. Science.

Said by himself. Brother agreed.

By war. A war against god. Sun god...nuclear maths converting. On earth about his life supported fused ground one God. The holy dusts.

Confession...I confess of Sion by fusion Into fission.

How to change one earth to get its stone powers was by themed above gas spirits as many angels above terminologies. Man's conscious self taught thesis. The many and not one.

Why the angel above fell in their nation land as a gas body and image upon the holy mountain of God. Giving sacrificed life it's nations message.

The war of God against man. Involved the beast symbolisms. As both man and beast bio genesis changed in its nature. Garden nature eviction. When we had to cover our naked bodies against sun fallout attack.

As we are born created naked first.

Message of gods law was natural mountain versus man's unholy God war pyramid technology. Waged in a many countries national use.

Fallout above the attack.

Man meek innocent spiritual and loving taught by spiritual intellect. Said his war of God then became a humans legal terminology taught as a nation to nations agreed teaching realisation.

Each nation now owned it's own holy DNA father agreed.

Was never about a human going to war. As men knew their greatest self testimony was to love and in loving could overcome any obstacle that man's hatred had tried to eradicate as our heritage humans spirituality.

With our holy fathers beginning teachings first only. Natural life was first and foremost before science causes.

And our love powerful would not submit to his own scientific hatred of God the one.

 

[loverofhumanity]

From my reading of the Quran it teaches peace and justice. It does not teach hatred or violence but to defend one’s rights if oppressed. Muhammad says if people offer peace then to respond with peace. Many Muslims at first when they were told to fight for their freedom of religion and rights resisted and did not want to get involved in defending themselves. But that would have meant genocide. The goal of the enemy was the complete extermination of the Muslim community so it was it was imperative that they defended themselves for their very survival.

 

[KWED]

There is this verse also:

وَإِنْ جَنَحُوا لِلسَّلْمِ فَاجْنَحْ لَهَا وَتَوَكَّلْ عَلَى اللَّهِ ۚ إِنَّهُ هُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ | If they incline toward peace, then you [too] incline toward it, and put your trust in Allah. Indeed He is the All-hearing, the All-knowing. | Al-Anfaal : 61

Notice the word here is exactly the word:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا ادْخُلُوا فِي السِّلْمِ كَافَّةً وَلَا تَتَّبِعُوا خُطُوَاتِ الشَّيْطَانِ ۚ إِنَّهُ لَكُمْ عَدُوٌّ مُبِينٌ | O you who have faith! Enter into submission, all together, and do not follow in Satan’s steps; he is indeed your manifest enemy. | Al-Baqara : 208

Those two words are exactly the same, but @KWED obviously knows everything about Islam and must know how Islam does not mean peace as well.

Oh dear.
Those two words are not exactly the same. They are written differently and have different meanings, despite both coming from the same root word,
I thought I had already explained this in simple terms.

In fact Islam concerns only matters of safety and fear.

Is this the original, standard Islam or your new version if it?

 

[KWED]

If you ignore verses, isolate a few of them, and interpret it in a way that Quran contradicts itself, picking and choosing, believing some verses while ignoring others, how is that valid?

Every religionist cherry picks to some degree, whatever their agenda. The Quran and sunnah are simply too vague and contradictory for it to be otherwise.
Ironically, it is the fundamentalists like ISIS how cherry pick the least because they do not have a problem with the violent and intolerant stuff. They have the courage of their convictions and believe that if god said its then it must right and good, whatever it is. They don't feel that they have to come up with interpretations that remove the violence and intolerance. After all, it's god's infallible revelation so who are you to claim he didn't mean what he said.

 

[KWED]

So okay, this thread might help you understand what Quran actually says about it.

The Quran says what it says, so that is god's word on the subject. Perfect and unchangeable.
Unfortunately, you don't like god's perfect, unchangeable word so you try to re-interpret it in a way that suits your own agenda - which kinda misses the point of having god's infallible, immutable revelation in the first place.

 

[KWED]

That is up to you. Maybe tone it down about holy books teaching x y z or whatever you claim if you do not know.

If all you had read of the Quran was 4:34, you could still legitimately criticise it for promoting domestic violence. What is says elsewhere cannot mitigate that.

 

[Link]

Oh dear.
Those two words are not exactly the same. They are written differently and have different meanings, despite both coming from the same root word,
I thought I had already explained this in simple terms.

They are exactly the same words here, translated differently.

 

[icehorse]

Can you give examples where this misinterpretation resulted in "bloody mayhem"?

1400 right? So there must be 100s of examples. Can you give 15?

It took me less than 30 seconds to do an internet search using the phrase "Islamic Battles". Of course there are many, many search results to review, but here's a nice overview:

List of battles 301–1300 - Wikipedia

Stop being a sea lion, some of us would like to have actual discussions.

 

[KWED]

No they didn't. You are wrong.

In your opinion. But you have a moderate, revisionist agenda to promote.

 

[KWED]

Can you give examples where this misinterpretation resulted in "bloody mayhem"?

1400 right? So there must be 100s of examples. Can you give 15?

You literally just claimed that the bloody mayhem caused by the likes of Al Qaida, ISIS, Boko Haram, etc are due to misinterpretations.

 

[Link]

You haven't shown that. You have presumed p1 and p2 and are trying to prove p3.

This thread would show it, if proven. It would prove those premises to be true as well. Wait more to what I will say about leadership and guidance from God in this respect, you will see what I mean.

 

[Link]

Every religionist cherry picks to some degree, whatever their agenda. The Quran and sunnah are simply too vague and contradictory for it to be otherwise.

The Quran is vague to people with hard hearts and who have a perverse hearts.

The contradictions are not in Quran. The Quran contextualizes when you can fight, while others when fighting is allowed are taken out of context as if universal declarations to fight everyone who does not believe. That interpretation is foolish and due to hard hearts.

 

[Link]

Two threads that have topics being raised here:

Did God ever command to slavery per Quran? | Religious Forums

Is it permitted to beat women per Quran? (challenge for one on one debate with anyone) | Religious Forums

Let's keep it on point, about war and peace. Not off-topics.

 

[Link]

If people interested in other aspects of Islam, that they have problems with, perhaps woman place:

The place of Women in Quran. | Religious Forums

Or perhaps they find the concept of hell barbaric and too vengeful towards some people:

The Quran's framework for hell. | Religious Forums

Anyways, I put some threads and can put more but let's try to keep this thread about the topic I raised in the first post.