Quran Burning

[Sum1sGruj]

Who makes this claim? Where?

Yeah, it's an anomaly isn't it?

But to answer your question: Physics, the purest of all sciences.

Maybe you should reconsider your status of atheism and become agnostic, like I was once.

At the beginning, there was the quantum. With a charge. But where did it come from? Nothing.
Actually, just go back to my other posts. I explained it very well.

I personally do not think this will be solved for a very long time, if it is even solvable. There is nothing in nature that suggests zero space/energy can expand into existence.
And as I said before, Stephen Hawking cannot even sway this issue.

The thing about physics today, is that it has essentially hit a brick wall. That's not to say that physicists have not made minor strides, or that the next big breakthrough isn't near. They are trying to find 'gravitons', which is practically particle gravity. If they exist, we will know soon.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Maybe you should reconsider your status of atheism and become agnostic, like I was once.

Are you suggesting that your riveting examples of proof should change someones beliefs? :slap:

 

[Autodidact]

Yeah, it's an anomaly isn't it?

But to answer your question: Physics, the purest of all sciences.

Who in physics claims that the universe came from nothing? Where? Please be specific.

Maybe you should reconsider your status of atheism and become agnostic, like I was once.

O.K. I will. Please persuade me that my stance is incorrect, and I will change it.

At the beginning, there was the quantum.

Says who?

With a charge. But where did it come from? Nothing.

Says who?

Actually, just go back to my other posts. I explained it very well.

Actually, no, you haven't. You haven't explained who says the universe came from nothing, or where they said it.

I personally do not think this will be solved for a very long time, if it is even solvable. There is nothing in nature that suggests zero space/energy can expand into existence.
And as I said before, Stephen Hawking cannot even sway this issue.

Does Hawking claim that this is the case? Where?

The thing about physics today, is that it has essentially hit a brick wall. That's not to say that physicists have not made minor strides, or that the next big breakthrough isn't near. They are trying to find 'gravitons', which is practically particle gravity. If they exist, we will know soon.

The thing about physics today is that neither you nor I have a high level of expertise in it.

 

[Sum1sGruj]

Who in physics claims that the universe came from nothing? Where? Please be specific.

The thing about physics today is that neither you nor I have a high level of expertise in it.

Michio Kaku, for one, specifically states that at the beginning, there was the quantum. But the general consensus of the big bang is that the beginning was the singularity.
I would expect atheists to know these things, as it really hurts atheism altogether.
And Stephen Hawking specifically states the problem. Youtube it or something.

Go ahead and play that card if you want, it doesn't change the fact that I am more versed in these things than you. A Christian, no doubt.
I figured your avatar would have been some indication, but atheists surprise me all the time with these things.

 

[Autodidact]

Michio Kaku, for one, specifically states that at the beginning, there was the quantum. But the general consensus of the big bang is that the beginning was the singularity.
I would expect atheists to know these things, as it really hurts atheism altogether.
And Stephen Hawking specifically states the problem. Youtube it or something.

Go ahead and play that card if you want, it doesn't change the fact that I am more versed in these things than you. A Christian, no doubt.
I figured your avatar would have been some indication, but atheists surprise me all the time with these things.

Who says that the universe came from nothing? Where? Please be specific. Try to answer without resorting to personal insults. Thank you.

 

[no-body]

Yeah, it's an anomaly isn't it?

But to answer your question: Physics, the purest of all sciences.

Maybe you should reconsider your status of atheism and become agnostic, like I was once.

At the beginning, there was the quantum. With a charge. But where did it come from? Nothing.
Actually, just go back to my other posts. I explained it very well.

I personally do not think this will be solved for a very long time, if it is even solvable. There is nothing in nature that suggests zero space/energy can expand into existence.
And as I said before, Stephen Hawking cannot even sway this issue.

The thing about physics today, is that it has essentially hit a brick wall. That's not to say that physicists have not made minor strides, or that the next big breakthrough isn't near. They are trying to find 'gravitons', which is practically particle gravity. If they exist, we will know soon.

I am admittedly pretty dumb when it comes to science but I believe there are theories that disprove your assertion that physics has hit "a brick wall" there is the multiverse theory for instance and another that states that there was always "something" and it evolved. Why is it OK for God but not the universe?

The thing is science is not as arrogant as religion, it goes by the evidence. If there where 100% evidence tomorrow that the Abrahamic God is real, science would accept it. Theist just can't seem to understand why their weak evidence coupled with faith can't just be accepted as proof, it usually ends with an exasperated "well nothing would ever convince you anyway you are just against God" which just isn't true.

They have a problem separating science from personal belief which is why they will bring up scientist who are of a certain faith and purport this to be some sort of proof "well this incredibly smart guy believes in God" all it means to me is that the intelligent have as much fear of death as anyone.

Religion is not necessarily incompatible with science but trying to insert it in there so everything starts and ends with "God did it" is incredible intellectual laziness.

 

[Sum1sGruj]

Who says that the universe came from nothing? Where? Please be specific. Try to answer without resorting to personal insults. Thank you.

I'm so glad it has been exemplified that atheists are just as blind as anybody else.

When I say physics hit a brick wall, I mean what I say. That is why theory has become the vastness of it until something new comes around. Besides a few minor things, this is where physics are right now.

The fact that you all do not know these simple things about physics makes me wonder, it really does. My esteem for atheism has just gone down another 65%.

Seriously, do not whine about insults when I am blatantly being spammed by atheists everywhere I go. Go swim with the fishes, or come up with something that says otherwise. I'm not wasting my time posting nay more sources that seem to do nothing to sway your denial. I've posted them by the dozens and to no avail.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Yeah, it's an anomaly isn't it?

At the beginning, there was the quantum. With a charge. But where did it come from? Nothing.
Actually, just go back to my other posts. I explained it very well.

No, you have not.
In fact, you have been called out several times now to substantiate that claim, and you have yet to deliver.
So, where is that citation?
Which scientist has made that claim and when?

 

[jarofthoughts]

I'm so glad it has been exemplified that atheists are just as blind as anybody else.

Nonsense.
You have done no such thing, and in any case, science does not equal atheism.

When I say physics hit a brick wall, I mean what I say. That is why theory has become the vastness of it until something new comes around. Besides a few minor things, this is where physics are right now.

I'm sure that is what you think, which is sort of sad.

The fact that you all do not know these simple things about physics makes me wonder, it really does. My esteem for atheism has just gone down another 65%.

And why do you think any of this is news to anyone here?
As far as I can see, no-one has expressed amazement at the things you have said.

I'm not wasting my time posting nay more sources that seem to do nothing to sway your denial. I've posted them by the dozens and to no avail.

You have provided zero sources despite being called out to do so several times.

 

[Sum1sGruj]

No, you have not.
In fact, you have been called out several times now to substantiate that claim, and you have yet to deliver.
So, where is that citation?
Which scientist has made that claim and when?

This is so asinine. Well, since common sense doesn't work, here you go:

[youtube]5XH3RIED6Y8[/youtube]
YouTube - Dr Michio Kaku Talks about String Theory Pt.1

 

[jarofthoughts]

This is so asinine. Well, since common sense doesn't work, here you go:

[youtube]5XH3RIED6Y8[/youtube]
YouTube - Dr Michio Kaku Talks about String Theory Pt.1

You do know that String theory/M-theory does not have the status of being a Scientific Theory, right? And that currently it is backed up by exactly zero empirical evidence, something which anyone working in the field will readily tell you?
Also, even if String theory proves to be right, saying that the Universe arose from 'nothing' is hardly an accurate description of what the theory says.
rather, as anyone with a degree in physics or cosmology can tell you, we do not, in fact, know what was there before the inflation of the Universe, and that is the long and the short of it.
We have some qualified guesses, but that is about it.

I recommend reading up on the subject and you'll see where you went wrong.
Do try again though.

PS: It should also be noted Michio Kaku, while brilliant and sometimes visionary, tends to extrapolate somewhat beyond accepted science, which is fine and dandy as long as the listener is aware of this fact.

 

[Autodidact]

I'm not wasting my time posting nay more sources that seem to do nothing to sway your denial. I've posted them by the dozens and to no avail.

You haven't posted any yet. Who says the universe comes from nothing? Where do they say it? Please be specific. Thank you.

 

[Autodidact]

You do know that String theory/M-theory does not have the status of being a Scientific Theory, right? And that currently it is backed up by exactly zero empirical evidence, something which anyone working in the field will readily tell you?
Also, even if String theory proves to be right, saying that the Universe arose from 'nothing' is hardly an accurate description of what the theory says.

I recommend reading up on the subject and you'll see where you went wrong.
Do try again though.

PS: It should also be noted Michio Kaku, while brilliant and sometimes visionary, tends to extrapolate somewhat beyond accepted science, which is fine and dandy as long as the listener is aware of this fact.

I didn't listen to it. Did he say the universe comes from nothing?

Sim1: Did someone here claim that the universe came from nothing?

 

[Sum1sGruj]

I didn't listen to it. Did he say the universe comes from nothing?

Sim1: Did someone here claim that the universe came from nothing?

Whatever. That is pretty ignorant of you.

He states that the universe came from nothing, a quantum of emptiness. The quantum principle states that even nothing is unstable, and so singularities pop up in the ocean of nothingness.
Of course, nothing has exemplified that idea of the quantum principle, so it's theoretical until they can figure out how a quantum of nothingness can gain a charge to do anything.

By this, they will likely have to unify the forces and gain a deeper understanding of physical reality. And even then, it may not even give us a hint. That is why I mentioned the 'graviton' earlier. The only forces that have been unified are electricity and magnetism.
Gravity is the black sheep of them all, and so if we can find that it exists at a quantum level, it would make the challenge easier.

 

[Autodidact]

Whatever. That is pretty ignorant of you.

*sigh* I didn't think you could have a reasonable discussion about the issues without resorting to insults. I'm guessing you're Christian?

He states that the universe came from nothing, a quantum of emptiness.

Who states that? Where? Please be specific.

The quantum principle states that even nothing is unstable, and so singularities pop up in the ocean of nothingness.

I'm not familiar with "the quantum principle." Could you refer me to a physics text or article where I can find it stated? Thanks.

Of course, nothing has exemplified that idea of the quantum principle, so it's theoretical until they can figure out how a quantum of nothingness can gain a charge to do anything.

Well, as we established in a separate thread, science does not work, and scientists are basically a bunch of nincompoops. I mean, if scientists really understood why atoms work, why can't they harness all that power to generate energy?

By this, they will likely have to unify the forces and gain a deeper understanding of physical reality. And even then, it may not even give us a hint. That is why I mentioned the 'graviton' earlier. The only forces that have been unified are electricity and magnetism.
Gravity is the black sheep of them all, and so if we can find that it exists at a quantum level, it would make the challenge easier.

What does that have to do with the universe coming into existence out of nothingness?

I'm guessing you're a creationist, since I've had to ask you the same question five times now, with no answer. You brought up the concept of the universe arising out of nothing. I'm wondering why. Who claims that it does? Where did he or she make that claim?

 

[Sum1sGruj]

String theory was not the subject when he spoke on before the Big Bang. It's during the first 20 seconds of the clip, which is part 1 of 4.
Nonetheless, it doesn't matter anyway because nothing can account for the origin of reality as of yet.

Autodidact, you are insulting me by refusing to look at the damn video. so your statements are just going to go ignored.
You asked a question 5 times, I answered it 5 times. You are just immature. Grow up.

The stupid, baseless accusations that I need to 'read up' on things just shows the uneducated mind you all have.
I don't even have to show how stupid a lot of atheists are. You all do it yourselves.

 

[Autodidact]

Whatever. That is pretty ignorant of you.

He states that the universe came from nothing, a quantum of emptiness. The quantum principle states that even nothing is unstable, and so singularities pop up in the ocean of nothingness.
Of course, nothing has exemplified that idea of the quantum principle, so it's theoretical until they can figure out how a quantum of nothingness can gain a charge to do anything.

By this, they will likely have to unify the forces and gain a deeper understanding of physical reality. And even then, it may not even give us a hint. That is why I mentioned the 'graviton' earlier. The only forces that have been unified are electricity and magnetism.
Gravity is the black sheep of them all, and so if we can find that it exists at a quantum level, it would make the challenge easier.

O.K., I listened to that interesting clip, and he does say something like that. Do you agree or disagree with him? What is your argument? Are you arguing that quantum physics is incorrect?

 

[Amill]

Michio Kaku, for one, specifically states that at the beginning, there was the quantum. But the general consensus of the big bang is that the beginning was the singularity.
I would expect atheists to know these things, as it really hurts atheism altogether.
And Stephen Hawking specifically states the problem. Youtube it or something.

I'm sorry but not having the answer to the existence of the singularity or the Universe altogether doesn't make an intelligent supernatural being a more reasonable answer. I know you think naturalistic explanations for the existence of the Universe are laughable, but what on earth makes a complex, super powerful, all intelligent, forever existent being a more plausible explanation?

And why did you even bring all of this up in a Quran burning topic? Someone posts something about how criticism and ridicule expose weaknesses and you jump right in to attack something that has nothing to do with the topic lol... Educated people make topics in the appropriate forums instead of hijacking threads that have nothing to do with the arguments.

 

[PhAA]

This is so asinine. Well, since common sense doesn't work, here you go:

[youtube]5XH3RIED6Y8[/youtube]
YouTube - Dr Michio Kaku Talks about String Theory Pt.1

He didn't simply say that the universe came from nothing *period* He said that "nothing" is unstable. That "nothing" can be "something".

 

[Sum1sGruj]

I'm sorry but not having the answer to the existence of the singularity or the Universe altogether doesn't make an intelligent supernatural being a more reasonable answer.

Well if took a good look at the problem, you would see that is not necessarily the case. Agnosticism is a lot more reasonable than either theism or atheism in a scientific sense.

I'm Christian because I can feel a higher power at work, which is something an atheist would never understand because their spiritual integrity is like a wet paper bag and the evidence that is there is replaced by theory.
Because for some reason, electrons can pop in and out of existence, multi-verses and a slew of other incredible things can theoretically exist, but divinity simply cannot.

He didn't simply say that the universe came from nothing *period* He said that "nothing" is unstable. That "nothing" can be "something".

Yeah, which he openly describes as needing to mathematically fit with the universe, which is far from being reached. You have no idea the amount of time and work it will take to come up with it, if the quantum principle is even the way.
Einstein's Relativity is even going into the crosshairs because it doesn't mathematically comply with the quantum world.