Jedster
Well-Known Member
Obviously written by someone that wants you to believe in their version god. It's easy to do.
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Quotes Series: From Quran- Authored by G-d not by Muhammad
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
Obviously written by someone that wants you to believe in their version god. It's easy to do.
Jedster
Well-Known Member
A good example that you may know is Valmiki's Ramayana.
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paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Quotes Series: From Quran- Authored by G-d not by Muhammad
"Usually a direct word will be prefaced by the word "say." "
Quran is authored by G-d as per the criterion suggested by our Christian friend @Muffled in post #97 in this thread . G-d tells Muhammad with the word "say" and or "قُلۡ" in Arabic original language and I have quoted many such verses in my previous posts .
Yet there are other styles (many of them) that depict that the Converse is direct from G-d with Muhammad. Since I daily read some portion of Quran(1/120) very early in the morning, so I will be quoting as I observe them while I read Quran. The words "اَلَمۡ تَرَ" or "Dost thou" is another style of direct address to Muhammad by G-d. And "یٰۤاَیُّہَا النَّبِیُّ" or "O thou Prophet" is yet another one:
[35:23]وَ مَا یَسۡتَوِی الۡاَحۡیَآءُ وَ لَا الۡاَمۡوَاتُ ؕ اِنَّ اللّٰہَ یُسۡمِعُ مَنۡ یَّشَآءُ ۚ وَ مَاۤ اَنۡتَ بِمُسۡمِعٍ مَّنۡ فِی الۡقُبُوۡرِ ﴿۲۳﴾
Nor alike are the living and the dead. Surely, Allah causes him to hear whom He pleases; and thou canst not make those to hear who are in the graves.
[35:24]اِنۡ اَنۡتَ اِلَّا نَذِیۡرٌ ﴿۲۴﴾
Thou art only a Warner.
[35:25]اِنَّاۤ اَرۡسَلۡنٰکَ بِالۡحَقِّ بَشِیۡرًا وَّ نَذِیۡرًا ؕ وَ اِنۡ مِّنۡ اُمَّۃٍ اِلَّا خَلَا فِیۡہَا نَذِیۡرٌ ﴿۲۵﴾
Verily, We have sent thee with the truth, as a bearer of glad tidings and as a Warner; and there is no people to whom a Warner has not been sent.
[35:26]وَ اِنۡ یُّکَذِّبُوۡکَ فَقَدۡ کَذَّبَ الَّذِیۡنَ مِنۡ قَبۡلِہِمۡ ۚ جَآءَتۡہُمۡ رُسُلُہُمۡ بِالۡبَیِّنٰتِ وَ بِالزُّبُرِ وَ بِالۡکِتٰبِ الۡمُنِیۡرِ ﴿۲۶﴾
And if they treat thee as a liar, those who were before them also treated their Prophets as liars. Their Messengers came to them with clear Signs, and with the Scriptures, and with the illuminating Book.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 35: Fatir
Right, please?
For the context of the above verses , please, access the above link.
____________
"Usually a direct word will be prefaced by the word "say." "
Quran is authored by G-d as per the criterion suggested by our Christian friend @Muffled in post #97 in this thread . G-d tells Muhammad with the word "say" and or "قُلۡ" in Arabic original language and I have quoted many such verses in my previous posts .
Yet there are other styles (many of them) that depict that the Converse is direct from G-d with Muhammad. Since I daily read some portion of Quran(1/120) very early in the morning, so I will be quoting as I observe them while I read Quran. The words "اَلَمۡ تَرَ" or "Dost thou" is another style of direct address to Muhammad by G-d. And "یٰۤاَیُّہَا النَّبِیُّ" or "O thou Prophet" is yet another one:
[35:23]وَ مَا یَسۡتَوِی الۡاَحۡیَآءُ وَ لَا الۡاَمۡوَاتُ ؕ اِنَّ اللّٰہَ یُسۡمِعُ مَنۡ یَّشَآءُ ۚ وَ مَاۤ اَنۡتَ بِمُسۡمِعٍ مَّنۡ فِی الۡقُبُوۡرِ ﴿۲۳﴾
Nor alike are the living and the dead. Surely, Allah causes him to hear whom He pleases; and thou canst not make those to hear who are in the graves.
[35:24]اِنۡ اَنۡتَ اِلَّا نَذِیۡرٌ ﴿۲۴﴾
Thou art only a Warner.
[35:25]اِنَّاۤ اَرۡسَلۡنٰکَ بِالۡحَقِّ بَشِیۡرًا وَّ نَذِیۡرًا ؕ وَ اِنۡ مِّنۡ اُمَّۃٍ اِلَّا خَلَا فِیۡہَا نَذِیۡرٌ ﴿۲۵﴾
Verily, We have sent thee with the truth, as a bearer of glad tidings and as a Warner; and there is no people to whom a Warner has not been sent.
[35:26]وَ اِنۡ یُّکَذِّبُوۡکَ فَقَدۡ کَذَّبَ الَّذِیۡنَ مِنۡ قَبۡلِہِمۡ ۚ جَآءَتۡہُمۡ رُسُلُہُمۡ بِالۡبَیِّنٰتِ وَ بِالزُّبُرِ وَ بِالۡکِتٰبِ الۡمُنِیۡرِ ﴿۲۶﴾
And if they treat thee as a liar, those who were before them also treated their Prophets as liars. Their Messengers came to them with clear Signs, and with the Scriptures, and with the illuminating Book.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 35: Fatir
Right, please?
For the context of the above verses , please, access the above link.
- Is there any such verse in the Torah of the Judaism where G-d has directly addressed Moses, please?If yes, please quote it here. Right, please?
- Is there any such verse in the Bible of the Christianity where G-d (not Jesus, as Jesus was never god or son of god) has directly addressed Jesus, please?If yes, please quote it here. Right, please?
- Is there any such verse in Kitab-i-Iqan by Bahaullah (where G-d has directly spoken to Bahaullah, Bahaullah was never a god), there cannot be any verse as G-d did not speak to Bahaullah directly? If there is any, please quote it here. Right, please?
- Kitab-i-Iqan was written by Bahaullah in 1862 (not revealed by G-d ) and the Covenant was taken by Bahaullah (without any direct Converse/Commandment of G-d, as I understand) in 1863. Therefore, if there had been any direct Converse from G-d Bahaullah would have mentioned it in Kitab-i-Iqan. In the Pre-Covenant period, Kitab-i-Iqan is the only core book of Bahaullah. Right,please?
____________
- I observe that Quran right from its start to its end is a direct Converse and in a sense a continuous dialogue between G-d and Muhammad providing live guidance, and through Muhammad to his companions, to the other people of his time and the world at large and for all times to come to all humanity. Right, please?
- "یٰۤاَیُّہَا الرَّسُوۡلُ " translated in English with the words "O Messenger" is another style, please refer my post #243 .
- "وَ لَوۡ تَرٰۤی "/ "If only thou couldst see" as mentioned in post #255.
- Another mode of direct Converse is direct commandment as in the verse [32:31] "فَاَعۡرِضۡ" , "وَ انۡتَظِرۡ" So turn away from them, and wait #261.
firedragon
Veteran Member
You could never make that kind of assessment. You never know if there were one country or more countries so many thousands of years ago before anyone invented ways to keep records.
No one should make assumptions like that.
From what we know so far, there is a study called Sociology of Religion where it shows that even if people invented their own Gods based on their needs and wants to represent them, still they tend to believe in a divinity. They tend to believe in a God or many Gods. But Sociology relies on known history, studied lands, we dont know anything about what we never studied. So one must make that kind of distinction.
firedragon
Veteran Member
You read Shri Valmiki?
Jedster
Well-Known Member
Yes. Circa 40 years ago. I recently started reading it again.
firedragon
Veteran Member
That's great. You learned sanskrit or did you inherit? Amazing language isnt it. Its naturally poetic.
Nice. I'm impressed.
Jedster
Well-Known Member
No, I read it in English.
firedragon
Veteran Member
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
"For me scripture is poetic writing, so I have nothing to agree or disagree with."
I have not read "Valmiki's Ramayana".
Has one read Quran from cover to cover, please?
Quran has its own unique style, as it is not authored by a human but authored by G-d.
It is more of a prose rather than being a poetic writing, and it is for the guidance of the whole humanity. Right, please?
So one has many things in it to agree with, please.Right, please?
Regards
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paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Quran is authored by G-d, not by Muhammad. G-d has given His attributes in Quran that are exhibited in nature/universe which is His creation. Other people could have many versions of G-d, as I understand it, due to their misunderstandings, but Quran presents only ONENESS of G-d. Right, please?
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
One has mentioned people's claims in one's post but Quran mentions emphatically that Muhammad did not and could not have authored Quran and has given strong arguments in this connection. It is altogether a different phenomenon, please. Right, please?
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
As the first chapter of Quran "Al-Fatihah"- the "Ummul Kitab" or summary of the Quran mentions one basic attribute of G-d as "رَبِّ الۡعٰلَمِیۡنَ ۙ" or the "Lord of all the worlds"; here it is mentioned by God that Muhammad has been sent by Him for all mankind. Right, please?
Regards
________________
[1:2]اَلۡحَمۡدُ لِلّٰہِ رَبِّ الۡعٰلَمِیۡنَ ۙ﴿۲﴾
All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds,
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 1: Al-Fatihah
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
There are many "First Person" verses from G-d in Quran, like:
[48:1]بِسۡمِ اللّٰہِ الرَّحۡمٰنِ الرَّحِیۡمِ﴿۱﴾
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[48:2]اِنَّا فَتَحۡنَا لَکَ فَتۡحًا مُّبِیۡنًا ۙ﴿۲﴾
Verily, We have granted thee a clear victory,
[48:3]لِّیَغۡفِرَ لَکَ اللّٰہُ مَا تَقَدَّمَ مِنۡ ذَنۡۢبِکَ وَ مَا تَاَخَّرَ وَ یُتِمَّ نِعۡمَتَہٗ عَلَیۡکَ وَ یَہۡدِیَکَ صِرَاطًا مُّسۡتَقِیۡمًا ۙ﴿۳﴾
That Allah may cover up for thee thy shortcomings, past and future, and that He may complete His favour upon thee, and may guide thee on a right path;
[48:4]وَّ یَنۡصُرَکَ اللّٰہُ نَصۡرًا عَزِیۡزًا ﴿۴﴾
And that Allah may help thee with a mighty help.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 48: Al-Fath
Doesn't it fulfill the sign of First Person direct Converse of G-d with Muhammad as asked by one and Second Person sign of direct Converse of G-d with Muhammad asked by another friend in the Forum, please?
Right, please?
Regards
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paarsurrey
Veteran Member
There is no need on any image. Concentration on G-d's attributes is only required. G-d has introduced His basic four attributes in the first chapter of Quran Al-Fatihah:
[1:2]اَلۡحَمۡدُ لِلّٰہِ رَبِّ الۡعٰلَمِیۡنَ ۙ﴿۲﴾
All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds,
[1:3]الرَّحۡمٰنِ الرَّحِیۡمِ ۙ﴿۳﴾
The Gracious, the Merciful,
[1:4]مٰلِکِ یَوۡمِ الدِّیۡنِ ؕ﴿۴﴾
Master of the Day of Judgment.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 1: Al-Fatihah
Right, please?
Regards
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe you would have to time travel back to the event and taste the wine to make sure it wasn't water. In any account the question is whether the person is telling the truth. Usually the argument is made that scripture could have been altered after the fact to make Jesus look more powerful but the fact is that all the gospel accounts which were written separately tell about miracles and many of those accounts are in agreement as to what happened. That makes it more likely that they were telling the truth.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I did study Arabic to converse with those who had issues with a particular verse. The book I read on the subject said that often when two nouns were together that there was an understood "is" between them. The verse had "Allah, His son" which could be translated as Allah is His son. I believe the translators knew exactly what that meant because they inserted the non-scriptural phrase "may it never be" into the text to try to extricate themselves from the natural implications.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe the prophets said "thus says the Lord"; the angel says in the Qu'ran "say" and Jesus says His words are the words of God. What do the B men say?
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe I am the evidence for a supreme being.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Friend!
One could see the official list of Baha'ullah writings on the internet. One will find the words like "revealed by the pen of Bahaullah" or revealed by Bahaullah. Obviously, it doesn't mean that it is Word Revealed by/from G-d with a Direct Converse with Bahaullah. Unless of course if the Bahaullah people believe that Bahaullah was God, but when asked specifically about it they deny it, except one or two persons in the RF. Some of them won't answer the question.
Right, please?
Regards
_____________
Is there a system in Nature/Universe, and in Quran/the Word of G-d?
#56