Questions to Pagans

[egcroc]

Greetings, I have a few questions to the Pagans/Neopagans on this forum, just out of curiosity..

1- How did you become a Pagan/Neopagan, were you born into it or convert to it later in your life?
2- in case of conversion? Why did you choose your current belief?
3- do you actually believe that your Pagan Deity(ies) exist(ed) for real? or is it just symbolism?

thanks alot....

 

[Riverwolf]

1- How did you become a Pagan/Neopagan, were you born into it or convert to it later in your life?

All my life I've loved nature and the earth. That just naturally, for me, led me to a belief in Gaia, and I also just naturally have always been a polytheist. I wasn't born into it, nor did I convert into it. I just... am that way.

2- in case of conversion? Why did you choose your current belief?

For Asatru specifically, Odin called me.

3- do you actually believe that your Pagan Deity(ies) exist(ed) for real? or is it just symbolism?

I believe they are real. But for me, there is no distinction between reality and fantasy.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

1- How did you become a Pagan/Neopagan, were you born into it or convert to it later in your life?

My story is complicated. I'm 24, but I've spent much of my life examining various religious and philosophical viewpoints. I've been a pantheist with Eastern influences, a devout Catholic, an agnostic, a Luciferian, a Satanist, etc.

But my first love was for the stories and figures of Greece. Even while a Luciferian and a Satanist, much of my thought was based off of Hellenic beliefs. I was essentially a Promethean, if you will, due to the influence that Romanticism had over my conception of Satanism. So now I've decided to strip the Abrahamic concepts from my beliefs and pursue them in a "purer" form.

2- in case of conversion? Why did you choose your current belief?

Because it makes the most sense to me. It certainly doesn't hurt that the Hellenic religion is one of the most well-documented of the pre-Christian paths that was halted by persecution. Unfortunately, most of the pre-Christian paths were practiced in oral cultures so much of our knowledge of them has been lost, probably irrevocably. What a horrendous shame.

3- do you actually believe that your Pagan Deity(ies) exist(ed) for real? or is it just symbolism?

I'm a hard polytheist. The Gods are real and eternal.

thanks alot....

You're welcome.

 

[Quintessence]

1- How did you become a Pagan/Neopagan, were you born into it or convert to it later in your life?

Very few contemporary Pagans are born into it. I've heard that some Neopagan parents elect to raise their children with religious choice rather than forcing a singular path or way on them, so even if you are born with the potential to be a "second generation" Neopagan, there's a fair chance the parents aren't going to raise the kid in the tradition anyway. It'd be interesting to see some demographics done work on this, and it wouldn't surprise me if some of the academics have already been taking a look at this.

All that said, very few Neopagans experience what is typically considered a "conversion" either, given Neopagan religions don't proselytize. It's something you discover on your own, or something you always were but didn't realize was a valid or recognized religious option in the 21st century. I was no different, really. My experiences of reality are explained far more consistently through Neopagan philosophy and theology than the dominant religious paradigm of my culture. It also speaks to me on an emotional and aesthetic level, which is very important. That's the crux of it; I find the details of how exactly I got here to be largely unimportant.

3- do you actually believe that your Pagan Deity(ies) exist(ed) for real? or is it just symbolism?

I find it bothers me more and more when this question gets asked because I feel it's missing the point. And, frankly, the question makes less and less sense to me at all as my theology matures. One might as well as me if gravity exists "for real" or if peace is "just a symbol."

To me, gods are defined as that which you find worthy of worship. Worship is understood as a celebration born of deep respect, awe, or admiration. What you choose to value and celebrate is entirely up to you. For me, it is various aspects of reality and the gods literally are the various aspects of reality, often expressed and understood by human societies through aesthetic symbolism.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

1- How did you become a Pagan/Neopagan, were you born into it or convert to it later in your life?

I was raised to be a Christian; left the religion of my parents and remained a passionate atheist for a good few years. Though I was certain of what I didn't believe in for a long time I began to wonder about what I did believe. I liked the look of Buddhism but after reading in depth I decided it wasn't for me; I found the idea that our suffering (and resulting rebirths) will continue as long as we accumulate karma (which feasibly means being trapped in suffering for the rest of time) to be very nihilistic. I looked at (philosophical) Taoism and that struck a chord because the whole point of it is to master the universe - not by conquering them but - by becoming attuned to them. That stayed with me for a long time since and when I accidentally stumbled across Paganism I felt like I'd finally found something worthwhile.

2- in case of conversion? Why did you choose your current belief?

First off, I was fascinated that people still worshipped old deities from any culture, much less some of the ones you learn about in school. Celtic/Druidic & Greek religions are the ones which fascinate me the most.

3- do you actually believe that your Pagan Deity(ies) exist(ed) for real? or is it just symbolism?

Yes; I believe they're real though I can't substantiate that in any way beyond my own personal experience. That suits me just fine as Pagan religions aren't generally (if at all) proselyting ones.

 

[mimpibird39]

1. I converted. I now follow mainly Religio Romana and I worship both Roman and Egyptian gods.

2. I was moving away from Catholicism for various reasons and tried calling out to some of the pagan gods. Bast and Ceres answered me.

3. I've become more of a hard polytheist now, so yes, I believe they are real.

 

[sol_mas]

Greetings, I have a few questions to the Pagans/Neopagans on this forum, just out of curiosity..

1- How did you become a Pagan/Neopagan, were you born into it or convert to it later in your life?
2- in case of conversion? Why did you choose your current belief?
3- do you actually believe that your Pagan Deity(ies) exist(ed) for real? or is it just symbolism?

thanks alot....

1. I converted into it, or I just started practicing it.
2. I guess you could say I "chose" the belief that I had the most affinity with.
3. Yes, they exist. I wasn't sure at first if there was more than one but they have distinct personalities.

-sm

 

[EyeofOdin]

1- How did you become a Pagan/Neopagan, were you born into it or convert to it later in your life?
2- in case of conversion? Why did you choose your current belief?

I was not born into Paganism or Polytheism. I was born into a conservative Christian family. We went to Church every Sunday, prayed before mealtime and talked openly about Jesus. I had some problems though. I knew the there were thousands of years of people who were pagans before the brief time that monotheism existed, and I thought to myself "why would God send those people to Hell, not only the people who lived isolated from the idea of Christ or God, but the people who had been born into and lived throughout a world that was predominantly Animist and Polytheist, sometimes thousands of years before the idea of monotheism for Yahweh hadn't even been proposed?" I also didn't like the idea of condemning someone or calling them a bad person just because they had been raised in a household that was Atheist, Buddhist, Islamic etc. and they simply weren't raised to believe in Christ. The only was someone would become a Christian would either be through forceful conversion, being born into the faith or, in the rare instances, someone believed that they had been intervened by the divine. Those who weren't lucky enough to face genocide against The Church, be born into a Christian family or to be intervened by God, usually by a supposed near death experienced, seemed simply doomed to Hell. With all of that in mind, I also kept hearing how fair, loving and just God was. Sending people to Hell for being in the wrong place for the wrong time didn't seem fair, loving or just at all.

I began to look elsewhere. I found the pagan and polytheist community. I eventually found Indigenous Heathenry. It fit so well with my, it called to something within me, something ancient, authentic and wise deep inside of my spirit. Everything wasn't just special, it was real and engaged. After giving offerings to Thor, sometimes there would be an unforeseen Thunderstorm in my town shortly afterward. I asked for a job and that day I had gotten a call for an interview. I performed a rite to Jord and I pulled tarot cards, and all of them had meanings connected to joy, celebration and the earth. There was never any room for doubt. The Gods are real, and are very active in our lives today.

3- do you actually believe that your Pagan Deity(ies) exist(ed) for real? or is it just symbolism?

I absolutely believe that the gods are real. We use human-like symbols to better connect to them, as they are abstract entities and incomprehendible cosmic forces, but they are still individuals with wants, desires and preferences.

 

[Parsimony]

I'm attempting to gain a further understanding here. I find the pagan ideology rather intriguing, so I hope you don't mind if I add to the questions that this topic has already addressed.

Is every individual deity considered to be a unique being, or is it that some peoples and religions recognize the same deity under different names? I have heard of Mars and Ares as being basically the same god, for example. Would the different Sun gods of different religions actually be considered different interpretations of the same Sun god?

If there is no such thing as pure fantasy, does that mean that every idea and character has a life and existence of its own? What if a person "invents" a god? Is that god then something that can be worshiped? Or would it instead be considered that the person "discovered" the god instead of inventing them?

How would anthropomorphic concepts like Old Man Winter, Father Time and Santa Claus be regarded? Would they be considered gods, spirits or something else?

 

[Sees]

I'm attempting to gain a further understanding here. I find the pagan ideology rather intriguing, so I hope you don't mind if I add to the questions that this topic has already addressed.

Is every individual deity considered to be a unique being, or is it that some peoples and religions recognize the same deity under different names? I have heard of Mars and Ares as being basically the same god, for example. Would the different Sun gods of different religions actually be considered different interpretations of the same Sun god?

If there is no such thing as pure fantasy, does that mean that every idea and character has a life and existence of its own? What if a person "invents" a god? Is that god then something that can be worshiped? Or would it instead be considered that the person "discovered" the god instead of inventing them?

How would anthropomorphic concepts like Old Man Winter, Father Time and Santa Claus be regarded? Would they be considered gods, spirits or something else?

There is a huge variation because there is no doctrine and dogma for vast majority.

Some Gods are identified as spirits/forces associated with natural things or processes and some not. Myths and legends were a way to pass folk wisdom, entertain, and also pass deeper truths and meaning hard or impossible to express. There is a lot of sophistication to the theologies and philosphies developed but Wikipedia or most books just show you a glimpse of it in a cheapened way.

Gods as spirit/energy-beings, as aspirations or archetypes, as poetic or fundamental essence personification of natural objects and forces, and more can all be correct at the same time.

In some traditions Gods are aware-conscious energy that is within all matter and makes it what it is instead of formless elements floating as a "cloud" in space. This would be part of the Gods vs Giants myths. In cosmology for Germanic traditions you have a Primal Void impersonal and eternal and in cycles of generation and decay matter elements dispersed are "slayed" by conscious energy/being and you have orgalmer - Primal Loud Sound. Different manifestations of conscious/energy evolve into spirit beings and forces and the primal matter elements evolve to things and planets and what not - now controlled by innate intelligent energy.

Gods are more ancient, distinct manifestations of this awake/spirit/energy-being stuffs and men are "baby-Gods" in the making yet the Primal/Divine Source is same and immanent in all.

Most of it is encoded in the names and words used and out into play throughout myths and legends....it's like a never ending rabbit hole with no wrong interpretations or perceptions.

There is a sort of pantheism, panendeism, polytheism mix throughout Indo-Euro traditions and many other cultural traditions but for simple, common people narrowing it down helps. If the Keepers, Seekers, Seers, Bards, etc. oral traditions and practices would not have been hunted and eradicated 99.9% it would be much more of a treasure chest with much less work but still personal experience to truly understand.

Edit: forgot to add there is also land wights, ancestors, and other beings/energies besides Gods, Goddesses and man discussed and experienced. Most fundamental thing is the difference between creation and the concepts of shaping/evolving. The idea that we grow/become and not static states applies to all things and not-things. Spirituality is more about evolutionary/transformational movement to wholeness, completeness, and health of spirit/body/mind personified as you. It's expressed in the languages and the old roots/meanings for all the "religious" words. Focus on who you be and choose to become and finding who you are meant to become - your roles and duties in life and how you belong to the web of existence seen and unseen. Not about intellectually understanding doctrine concerning Gods, human nature, universe, etc.

 

[Quintessence]

I'd like to preface this by seconding Sees' observation that Paganisms, contemporary or otherwise, are very theologically diverse.

Is every individual deity considered to be a unique being, or is it that some peoples and religions recognize the same deity under different names? I have heard of Mars and Ares as being basically the same god, for example. Would the different Sun gods of different religions actually be considered different interpretations of the same Sun god?

The only blanket statement I'd feel comfortable making with respect to how Pagans approach the gods is that they do so in a way that reflects their experiences of them. I think Sees does a great job of presenting certain aspects of this, but there's a specific take on this that I think is worth discussing.

In contemporary Pagan circles, you will sometimes see discussions about two flavors of polytheism: "soft" and "hard." Generally speaking, "soft" polytheists would not regard various cultural deities to be unique or distinct beings, but different interpretations of some underlying archetype or unified force. "Hard" polytheists on the other hand - whom are more representative of Paganisms of antiquity - would definitely regard various cultural deities to be distinct.

Some of our community leaders have speculated that as Neopaganism matures, it's polytheistic theology will more closely resemble that of antiquity. This is based on the hypothesis that soft polytheism is a byproduct of Neopaganism arising out of a predominantly monotheistic culture. People converting away from monotheistic religions can't quite fully remove themselves from that one-god idea, so they meet polytheism halfway and are "soft." I think there is at least some truth to this observation, but I hesitate to put too much weight behind it. There's certainly no denying that contemporary Paganism is inevitably influenced by the dominating monotheisms of our culture, but I'm not sure I favor the slightly condescending attitude that "mature" Neopaganisms are hard or "true" polytheist.

Honestly, given that Paganisms are more about practice, the theology behind worship is largely irrelevant. Pagans, for the most part, approach various gods as distinct individuals regardless of whether or not they are "soft" or "hard" polytheists. It's akin to approaching specific humans as individuals instead of as representatives of the collective essence of the human species.

If there is no such thing as pure fantasy, does that mean that every idea and character has a life and existence of its own? What if a person "invents" a god? Is that god then something that can be worshiped? Or would it instead be considered that the person "discovered" the god instead of inventing them?

Nobody agrees in the answers to these questions in the community, so I'm not sure I even want to attempt to represent all the perspectives out there. I like to keep it simple: gods are that which someone regards as worthy of worship, for whatever reasons they deem sufficient. That which can be experienced in any way by us is part of our reality, and may be deemed as a subject of worship. I personally do not concern myself with fussing over what aspects of reality are "more real" than the others. It's all real. Whether or not something was "invented" or "discovered" is irrelevant: it's all real, and it can all be worshiped if you choose.

In a fashion, this touches on one of the most important characteristics of Paganisms: you pick your gods, and you worship what you want. Whether or not someone else believes in or approves of your gods and your worship of them is the sort of intolerant nonsense that was born out of exclusivist religious positions, not polytheistic theology.

How would anthropomorphic concepts like Old Man Winter, Father Time and Santa Claus be regarded? Would they be considered gods, spirits or something else?

I'm not entirely sure what to make of this "anthropomorphic concepts" business. That categorization seems somewhat arbitrary and I'm not sure I understand what you're putting into it - and what it is contrasted to. Human understanding of the gods is frequently depicted in anthropomorphic terms in all theistic religions. It's poetic metaphor and artistic license; the "concept" is understood to refer to an actual thing out there, as filtered through human understanding. I'm also confused as to why Santa Claus is on the list, because he really doesn't seem to be of the same sort as the other two.

 

[Parsimony]

I'm not entirely sure what to make of this "anthropomorphic concepts" business. That categorization seems somewhat arbitrary and I'm not sure I understand what you're putting into it - and what it is contrasted to. Human understanding of the gods is frequently depicted in anthropomorphic terms in all theistic religions. It's poetic metaphor and artistic license; the "concept" is understood to refer to an actual thing out there, as filtered through human understanding. I'm also confused as to why Santa Claus is on the list, because he really doesn't seem to be of the same sort as the other two.

I think I see what you are saying. Old Man Winter and Father Time would represent fundamental aspects of nature whereas Santa Claus would not, right? Could Santa, instead, be seen as an archetypic representation of generosity and goodwill? He doesn't have to literally be a fat man in a red suit.

 

[SoulDaemon]

I don't know if i'm qualified as pagan, I myself don't see the point of using that description of myself unless compared by the "real belief" of other people.

I did not seek it , nobody taught or connected me with nature, it simply is in me.

I don't see it as a religion of any kind, nature is and will be, i'm merely a flick of moment in time compared to it.

Nature itself just is. I have no word for it, spirit/s or god/s as words does not give it credit.

When I walk in the woods or sit on a rock watching nature and all it is. I need not specify or classify it, it just is, and I feel a state of relief and serenity.

 

[Sees]

I think I see what you are saying. Old Man Winter and Father Time would represent fundamental aspects of nature whereas Santa Claus would not, right? Could Santa, instead, be seen as an archetypic representation of generosity and goodwill? He doesn't have to literally be a fat man in a red suit.

Santa Claus is very much related to legend of Odin on the great hunt...Christmas tree = Yggdrasil...little worlds as decorations...stockings were socks children fill with hay to feed Odin's horse Sleipnir when he makes stops during the hunt.

Over time and in different cultures and tribes it evolves and names change, meanings lost, altered, or morph. Especially with introduction of Christianity.

Gift-giving and seeing the Gods as family was/is always important. Even with some of the different takes on theology Quintessence mentions present in paganism past and present, these core aspects remain that what is holy and sacred is not transcendent and it's part of you in every sense - fully immanent. The fundamental way that polytheism and plurality/multiplicity comes in is that we don't lose identity here - Wholeness and Interconnectedness are the key words instead of Oneness.

So there is actually spirituality present in our Santa traditions, depending how much you can dig up or discover in dreams.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Greetings, I have a few questions to the Pagans/Neopagans on this forum, just out of curiosity..

1- How did you become a Pagan/Neopagan, were you born into it or convert to it later in your life?
2- in case of conversion? Why did you choose your current belief?
3- do you actually believe that your Pagan Deity(ies) exist(ed) for real? or is it just symbolism?

thanks alot....

Sorry, but it’s taken me awhile to decide I wanted to respond to this thread, and then to find the time to do so.

1- How did you become a Pagan/Neopagan, were you born into it or convert to it later in your life?

I was raised liberal Christian—the parents took us to a Presbyterian church, eventually we pretty much stopped going. They wanted us to be exposed, but I still don’t know how much/whether they believed/believe. They are very private about that. They are also still members of the same church, even though I don’t think they ever actually attend.

I tried during my late adolescent and early teen years to be a good Christian: got myself born again and all that. I definitely felt there was something to spirituality, but over that roughly 10 year period I pretty much abandoned Christianity. I felt a much stronger pull to Native American beliefs, Taoism and a greater interest in the myriad mythologies related in different cultures, even within American culture. I also had an absolutely terrifying set of experiences about the age of 20, in response to which I pretty much shut down investigations into spiritual matters.

Without giving up on my existing beliefs completely, I then entered a primarily agnostic-waffling-to-atheist phase, lasting between my early 20s to my early 40s. Believe me, I did give atheism a real try for a while. It was in my early 40s that I gave up on atheism, and while retaining some of my agnosticism, have since become a practicing animist, solitary eclectic variety. Had myself a mid-life crisis, some would say, but it was NOT the stereotypical kind.

2- in case of conversion? Why did you choose your current belief?

I suppose you could say I converted, even though the beliefs I hold now were also there in my teens and at least in the background throughout my life: I never completely disposed of all of them; and I finally decided to acknowledge what I was experiencing in my life, which is animism. I still entertain the belief in Christianity, although that belief is heavily constrained by my belief in the material and spiritual nature of the universe, which pretty much precludes what is widely accepted as the cosmology/ies of Christians, as I understand it/them—and I do understand several of them very well.

3- do you actually believe that your Pagan Deity(ies) exist(ed) for real? or is it just symbolism?

I hate to do it, but YES to both. It’s not even that it’s a false dichotomy, although in some senses it certainly could be. On the one hand, I experience spirit in all things, so they are real as far as I’m concerned. I don’t expect them to always or often (or even ever, really) manifest to others as they do to me—but when they do, I am pleased to have my experiences reinforced by the experiences of others. At the same time, my understanding of spirit is at least sometimes just my own mental construction or symbolic understanding of the way things are and/or seem to be—that is, what I’m considering to be a “deity” is probably my own idea of what such a spirit would be, not what that spirit actually is. It’s the same problem as knowing another person—some of what you know is made up, assumed, and is therefore not necessarily accurate.

So, egcroc, have the responses satisfied your curiosity? Have you any insight to share? I'm curious about you and your beliefs, too!

 

[dsaly1969]

1- How did you become a Pagan/Neopagan, were you born into it or convert to it later in your life?

I was raised Mormon (LDS) but it was not a good match for me so I left and became a spiritual seeker exploring many different traditions. I ran across Wicca and was a member of a coven back in the late 80's. I also looked into Asatru. I have been affiliated with the Church of All Worlds as well as the Reformed Druids of Gaia (and Reformed Druids of North America) as they are very eco-pagan oriented (along with the Reclaiming Tradition of Witchcraft which Starhawk comes from). I'm also a member of the Universal Pantheist Society.

2- in case of conversion? Why did you choose your current belief?

I quickly found that I resonated more with animism and pantheism where I revere the Universe, Nature, Earth, etc. and honor and treat other living beings as my kin (which you find in the more "eco-pagan" groups) as my path rather than more ritualistic and "occult" oriented pagan paths which focus on working "magick" and venerating a historical cultural pantheon of gods and goddesses.

3- do you actually believe that your Pagan Deity(ies) exist(ed) for real? or is it just symbolism?

I'm a pantheist and animist. I do not have to *believe* in the Universe or Nature or the Earth, etc as they are just there. And other living beings (I widen the circle to include animals, plants, trees, rocks, etc.) obviously exist. My only difference is that I treat them as "persons" (you do not need formal ritual to do that).

 

[Katzpur]

And other living beings (I widen the circle to include animals, plants, trees, rocks, etc.) obviously exist. My only difference is that I treat them as "persons" (you do not need formal ritual to do that).

Would you mind elaborating on this last statement. Are you saying that inanimate objects are also alive in some sense? (If so, it may surprise you to know that I am a Mormon but have always kind of believed this to be the case.)

 

[dsaly1969]

Would you mind elaborating on this last statement. Are you saying that inanimate objects are also alive in some sense? (If so, it may surprise you to know that I am a Mormon but have always kind of believed this to be the case.)

:yes: I find that not only plants, trees, and animals respond to empathy and kindness but so can rocks, boulders, fire, clouds, etc. There is an energy within and connecting all things.

It's good to see a Mormon who shares similar views. Peace!

 

[Katzpur]

:yes: I find that not only plants, trees, and animals respond to empathy and kindness but so can rocks, boulders, fire, clouds, etc. There is an energy within and connecting all things.

It's good to see a Mormon who shares similar views. Peace!

Cool! Yeah, I absolutely never mention this belief to my fellow Latter-day Saints (it would be kind of too far out there for most of them), but it's something I've just always felt deep down inside.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Greetings, I have a few questions to the Pagans/Neopagans on this forum, just out of curiosity..

Ok, I will see where this is going :sarcastic

1- How did you become a Pagan/Neopagan, were you born into it or convert to it later in your life?

I mainly studied paganism from an Islamic point of view during my time spent as a Muslim. It was mostly intellectual pleasure but this led me to many conclusions about the start of Judaism and Christianity which thus weakened my faith and eventually made me break free.

I primarily studied further on Semitic paganism and never really applied it to my life as I remained a devout Deist. So Paganism was just a way of refuting religious claims although I attempted to practice it many times I just could not grasp it.

I have been a "practical pagan" for at least 5 months now. I am void of a lot of the stereotypes and norms in the pagan community I just do not speak about it nor identify as a pagan at all and still swear by Deism usually . I for example am not a nature lover as it is not expressed in Semitic Paganism along with many forms you see int he neo-Pagan community.

2- in case of conversion? Why did you choose your current belief?

I chose it as a natural reaction to my religious upbringing as a child and because Semitic Paganism is rarely known yet practiced by almost half of the world's population.

3- do you actually believe that your Pagan Deity(ies) exist(ed) for real? or is it just symbolism?

Purely symbolism. Myth is a way of constructing symbolism in a manner that relates to reality.

Many of the tales of Enlil and Ninlil are created to express aspects of the seasons and astronomy/astrology

thanks alot....

You're welcome