Questions about the Siddhis

[Windwalker]

This is a question posed to our Hindu members of the forum. It may also be addressed by others if they have information to share. I have heard various teachers speak of the siddhis, and issue warnings about not being swept up by them, that you should effectively ignore them and move beyond them to the higher goal of union with the divine. From what I gather these are various powers that arise in more advanced states of spiritual development that some might consider "supernatural", or at the least beyond our normal conditions.

Are these inherently something to be avoided because they are somehow "dangerous" in themselves, or is the danger that the seeker who has not yet sufficiently moved beyond seeing the self and reality through the egoic mind, will begin to identify itself with these and get caught into a trap, being "glamorized" by them? What can be said of these from a positive perspective? I'd like others thoughts to about these.

Also, what all are considered the siddhis? Is it just fantastical, unbelievable things like walking through walls and whatnot, or does it also refer to more commonplace higher subtle level states, such as energy bodies, guides, and other types of phenomenon meditators may encounter?

 

[Vinayaka]

Aum WW,

In my tradition siddhis are definitely there. The ego is the part that's dangerous, but if a person acted on his/her siddhis in that way, they'd probably lose them. The siddhis themselves are just a result of a lot of inner work, in the same way a really good athlete can do stuff that the rest of us would consider impossible. It's a natural outcome of years of practise.

The teacher or Guru will use siddhis to help understand where a student is at, so that the teaching can be individualised for that person. In my tradition, the very heart of the sampradaya is one on one (often one on two, in the case of married couples) teaching, often in private darshan meetings. or casual moments. By using clairaudience or clairvoyance, the Guru can read the subconscious, or 'listen in' on what the devotee is thinking. He can then prescribe medicine (sadhanas, or penance) unique to the condition, just like a doctor would.

Another use of a siddhi might be checking up on just what is causing a particular shift in vibration, from the inner worlds, or external worlds. For example, is someone is trespassing on your property, but you don't know if the purpose is benevolent or dangerous, you could go have a look.

 

[Howard Is]

Also, what all are considered the siddhis? Is it just fantastical, unbelievable things like walking through walls and whatnot, or does it also refer to more commonplace higher subtle level states, such as energy bodies, guides, and other types of phenomenon meditators may encounter?

I think that is a big subject, especially since when the term was first used it was not in the mieleu of debates about magic versus science, as we have now.

In some, but by no means all instances, it can simply mean very unusual. Paranormal or supernormal in the sense of ...not common, not generally encountered in the day to day.

For example, I attended a retreat with Traleg Rinpoche, and he was teaching from ‘Moonbeams of Mahamudra’, which is a foundational text in the Kagyu school. He was also using this process of working through Moonbeams during retreats to refine his new translation, so establishing an understanding of terms with a western sangha was pivotal.

He was teaching the Five Symptoms of Enlightenment, and one of them was ‘extraordinary feats’. I grabbed my ankle and lifted my foot in the air and said “These look like perfectly ordinary feets to me”
He laughed and said “Changing the karma”.

In other words, to consciously bring about a change in action, in behaviour, was what Rinpoche chose to give as an example of a siddhi. It was in fact the only example he gave.

There are obviously other uses of the word, but Rinpoche knew that too, and that was his reply.

 

[Aupmanyav]

This is another thing that my science-inclined brain fails to accept, though the changes in body brought about by the Buddhist monks is oft-mentioned. Perhaps the Hindu yogis too have these powers. There is no scientific reason for a person just by willing it to increase the temperature of the body, but they say things like these are done. Then there are things that are even weirder.

 

[stvdv]

This is a question posed to our Hindu members of the forum. It may also be addressed by others if they have information to share. I have heard various teachers speak of the siddhis, and issue warnings about not being swept up by them, that you should effectively ignore them and move beyond them to the higher goal of union with the divine. From what I gather these are various powers that arise in more advanced states of spiritual development that some might consider "supernatural", or at the least beyond our normal conditions.

Are these inherently something to be avoided because they are somehow "dangerous" in themselves, or is the danger that the seeker who has not yet sufficiently moved beyond seeing the self and reality through the egoic mind, will begin to identify itself with these and get caught into a trap, being "glamorized" by them? What can be said of these from a positive perspective? I'd like others thoughts to about these.

Also, what all are considered the siddhis? Is it just fantastical, unbelievable things like walking through walls and whatnot, or does it also refer to more commonplace higher subtle level states, such as energy bodies, guides, and other types of phenomenon meditators may encounter?

Short version:
Siddhis are not dangerous.

Longer version:
I read the same verses "Spiritual Ego is the worst obstacle on the Spiritual Path". So I told God "please don't give me siddhis". I was very fanatical when starting, very young and enthousiastic. Giving up sex, fasting continuously and what not. Gods seem to love that, or at least compensate it heavenly, even if you say NO. But even then you can decide not to use them. Because still, I believe it's wise to stay away of Spiritual Ego as far as possible.

So, no need to worry about getting siddhis or not. Just worry about ego. Best recipe IMO is surrender to a Great Guru, and see your Guru as God and your self as a grain of dust or a drop of water or something like that.

Anyway, Spiritual Life is all about giving up Ego, worldly attachments. If you don't like sex, then there is nothing to give up. First like sex, then give it up. First like indulging in food, then give it up. First get siddhis then give them up. That is spiritual life IMO, first get attached then give up the attachment. So, if that is true, then God will grant you siddhis anyway, provided you do the proper sadhana of course, and then it is just as all the other attachments ... give them up. There is no challenge of giving up siddhis if you do not even have them.

My Master, Sai Baba, always said. You can do whatever you desire, but do anything just once. Why do it twice, once experienced go on to the next step, level. That way you go fastest. My Guru is easy going the first step "you can do whatever you desire" ... but follow up "do it once" is the tricky part. But not succeeding does keep you humble, knowing you failed already the second time. So my Master is the perfect Master for me. He gave me everything, and then I could give it back to Him. In the beginning I was not aware of this game of His, and I got upset a lot. But when I finally saw this game, I even started enjoying it a bit. My Master also said "If you want to surrender to me, I grant you the 3 ZEROs. Take your health, wealth, good name. You still want ME?

 

[sun rise]

To me a classic in this area is the story of Milarepa who developed siddhis to attack others who had wronged his family. He then repented of his deeds and became "Tibets Greatest Yogi"

To me therefore the problem is not the ability to do something but the egoic temptation to do so whether it be to get followers or for other motives.

The same attitude toward such things are in an Islamic Sufi story:

One day Hasan AlBasri saw Rabia near a lake. He threw his prayer rug on top of the water and said:

"Rabia come! Let us pray two rakat here."

She replied:

"Hasan, when you are showing off your spiritual goods in the worldly market, it should be things which your fellow men cannot display."

She then threw her prayer rug into the air and flew up onto it saying:

"Come up here, Hasan, where people can see us."

Then she said:

"Hasan, what you did, fish can do, and what I did, flies can do. But the real business is outside these tricks. One must apply oneself to the real business."

 

[dybmh]

siddhis are often spoken about by QiGong and NeiGong practictioners. It's not Hindu though, these practices originated in China. The the most common risk is listed below.

Zou huo ru mo - Wikipedia

"a Chinese-culture concept traditionally used to indicate that something has gone wrong in spiritual or martial arts training. The qigong community uses this term to describe a physiological or psychological disorder believed to result during or after qigong practice, due to "improper practice" of qigong and other self-cultivation techniques. The concept was highlighted in the social and political context of mass popularization of qigong in China."

 

[dybmh]

Also, what all are considered the siddhis?

I'm not an expert, but the most common seems to be opening the third-eye ( and others ). Also people speak about the ability to sense someone else's buddah-nature.

ETA: This again is coming from a Daoist perspective, not Hindu.

 

[dybmh]

There is no scientific reason for a person just by willing it to increase the temperature of the body

I have just started researching this...

This is what I'm reading right now. Note: The link is to snopes.com, and snopes said it's "true".

Harvard Study Confirms Tibetan Monks Can Raise Body Temperature With Their Minds

 

[Windwalker]

siddhis are often spoken about by QiGong and NeiGong practictioners. It's not Hindu though, these practices originated in China. The the most common risk is listed below.

Zou huo ru mo - Wikipedia

"a Chinese-culture concept traditionally used to indicate that something has gone wrong in spiritual or martial arts training. The qigong community uses this term to describe a physiological or psychological disorder believed to result during or after qigong practice, due to "improper practice" of qigong and other self-cultivation techniques. The concept was highlighted in the social and political context of mass popularization of qigong in China."

While that's interesting to me as someone who practices Taijiquan and qigong, I do not believe that is the same as the Siddhis that are spoken of by Hindus and Buddhists. What this here is describing is what really amounts to what I would call ungrounded energies. Too much Yang, and no Yin for instance, or vice versa. Same thing can happen in regular meditation without proper grounding. You become scattered, nervous, anxious, upset, etc.

The Siddhis on the other hand would be more like what happens when the Taiji practitioner is in the highest states of grounded awareness of body and mind, in sung states, in other words. Movement and awareness can transcend normal functions, and self-healing occurs. More along those lines, moving into the subtle domains of awareness, sensing energies and connections in everything, etc. But it would be that and more. The effect is transformative, not debilitating.

 

[Windwalker]

I'm not an expert, but the most common seems to be opening the third-eye ( and others ). Also people speak about the ability to sense someone else's buddah-nature.

ETA: This again is coming from a Daoist perspective, not Hindu.

I would agree those are part of it. You can tell a person's story, energetically.

 

[Howard Is]

Then there are things that are even weirder.

You got that right.

 

[Howard Is]

changes in body brought about by the Buddhist monks is oft-mentioned

I practiced lowering my heart rate for years, because when I was young my resting heart rate was typically over 90 bpm, often 100.

My success was confirmed during a hospitalization. I was attached to various monitors including a heart rate monitor, and whenever left to myself I would practice pratyahara.
However it never lasted long because an alarm would go off when my heart rate dropped to 40 bpm. Then a bunch of nurses would come running...

I explained that I was just meditating. At first they outright didn’t believe me when I told them that I could slow my heart rate, but after a demonstration they were convinced.
I tripped the alarm three times before deciding to stay on deck for the nurse’s sake.

Nowadays my resting heart rate is often below 60, and if I am training, around 50.

 

[Vinayaka]

I practiced lowering my heart rate for years, because when I was young my resting heart rate was typically over 90 bpm, often 100.

My success was confirmed during a hospitalization. I was attached to various monitors including a heart rate monitor, and whenever left to myself I would practice pratyahara.
However it never lasted long because an alarm would go off when my heart rate dropped to 40 bpm. Then a bunch of nurses would come running...

I explained that I was just meditating. At first they outright didn’t believe me when I told them that I could slow my heart rate, but after a demonstration they were convinced.
I tripped the alarm three times before deciding to stay on deck for the nurse’s sake.

Nowadays my resting heart rate is often below 60, and if I am training, around 50.

You can do the same with blood pressure.

 

[Aupmanyav]

My success was confirmed during a hospitalization. I was attached to various monitors including a heart rate monitor, and whenever left to myself I would practice pratyahara. However it never lasted long because an alarm would go off when my heart rate dropped to 40 bpm. Then a bunch of nurses would come running ..

True. My heart-rate and blood pressure too used to be below normal in youth (not so now, I misused my blessings). My mother's people generally lived long. She is 97 now. Sport persons or those like you who practice meditation generally have a low heart-rate.

 

[dybmh]

Same thing can happen in regular meditation without proper grounding. You become scattered, nervous, anxious, upset, etc.

Well, that ^^ sounds familiar...

 

[Aupmanyav]

Well, that ^^ sounds familiar...

It happens when we misread the purpose of meditation. It is not siddhis (whether they exist or not is open to question), but calmness and focus in what we are doing at that moment.

 

[ajay0]

This is a question posed to our Hindu members of the forum. It may also be addressed by others if they have information to share. I have heard various teachers speak of the siddhis, and issue warnings about not being swept up by them, that you should effectively ignore them and move beyond them to the higher goal of union with the divine. From what I gather these are various powers that arise in more advanced states of spiritual development that some might consider "supernatural", or at the least beyond our normal conditions.

Are these inherently something to be avoided because they are somehow "dangerous" in themselves, or is the danger that the seeker who has not yet sufficiently moved beyond seeing the self and reality through the egoic mind, will begin to identify itself with these and get caught into a trap, being "glamorized" by them? What can be said of these from a positive perspective? I'd like others thoughts to about these.

The answer is there in your question itself. Sri Ramakrishna and Buddha forbid the manifestation of powers in their disciples which came naturally to them in their spiritual progress.

Buddha once excommunicated a disciple for showing off with such powers while Ramakrishna removed such powers from a disciple with showoff tendencies.

The issue is that such powers can boost the ego and be detrimental to their spiritual progress.

Such psychic powers have a positive in that it can build faith in the disciple and prove to him the efficacy of the spiritual practices or sadhana.

In the enlightened one such powers do not cause issues as the ego is permanently eradicated and the enlightened master can use such powers to build faith in the disciple or for serving existence.

Also, what all are considered the siddhis? Is it just fantastical, unbelievable things like walking through walls and whatnot, or does it also refer to more commonplace higher subtle level states, such as energy bodies, guides, and other types of phenomenon meditators may encounter?

You can study about these powers in Patanjali's
Yoga Sutras.

 

[dybmh]

It happens when we misread the purpose of meditation. It is not siddhis (whether they exist or not is open to question), but calmness and focus in what we are doing at that moment.

Being grounded is very challenging for me. But I'm figuring it out. Slowly.

Scattered, nervous, easily upset... That's the story of my life.

 

[Aupmanyav]

How far you are from a river? Spend some time on its banks. Don't worry, the world will manage itself (while you are there).