Question regarding Moksha

[Runewolf1973]

From a Buddhist or Hindu perspective, what happens if I have no desire for liberation from the cycle of death and rebirth? I am quite content if that cycle continues as is. To me it's just another desire and I thought the whole point was to rid oneself of all desire.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Very clever. Well here goes...

If you have no inclination to strive for moksha that simply means you've decided to live bound to your base disposition. You're deciding you are satisfied with that. For better or worse...

Desire for moksha is upaya. Simple answer to that last bit.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Very clever. Well here goes...

If you have no inclination to strive for moksha that simply means you've decided to live bound to your base disposition. You're deciding you are satisfied with that. For better or worse...

Desire for moksha is upaya. Simple answer to that last bit.

Not really "bound" to anything though. Just ***being*** as is it may for better or worse. Is there any negative consequence to this? To just being?

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Not really "bound" to anything though. Just ***being*** as is it may for better or worse. Is there any negative consequence to this?

You are bound though. This is just a case of being semantic. You're bound by your in born disposition and all the animal passions. Saying otherwise is just weak semantics.

There are negative consequences sure. Why preach to you though? It seems like your mind is made up. Sometimes experience and running the course are the best teachers.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

I'm not sure this is a question about moksha rather than how Buddhists and Hindus feel about the possibility of one choosing to ignore the reality of moksha...

 

[Runewolf1973]

You are bound though. This is just a case of being semantic. You're bound by your in born disposition and all the animal passions. Saying otherwise is just weak semantics.

There are negative consequences sure. Why preach to you though? It seems like your mind is made up. Sometimes experience and running the course are the best teachers.

It seems to me that the idea of being bound to anything is just a perceptual thing. Yes we must live in this perceptual world, but we are not in reality bound to it. Only our minds make us think that, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I'm not sure this is a question about moksha rather than how Buddhists and Hindus feel about the possibility of one choosing to ignore the reality of moksha...

Yes you are right, but I wasn't sure how to word it.

 

[George-ananda]

From a Buddhist or Hindu perspective, what happens if I have no desire for liberation from the cycle of death and rebirth? I am quite content if that cycle continues as is. To me it's just another desire and I thought the whole point was to rid oneself of all desire.

Good question. I would say, you will not attain moksha with a desire for ego experiencing. However at some point the game of ego experiencing will dull and you would experience the desire for consciousness expansion; realization that you are the One. The drop becomes the ocean.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Good question. I would say, you will not attain moksha with a desire for ego experiencing. However at some point the game of ego experiencing will dull and you would experience the desire for consciousness expansion; realization that you are the One. The drop becomes the ocean.

Good response! What if one already realizes that Oneness? It just seems like there is nothing more to realize...may as well just enjoy the ride for the sake of the ride.

 

[Mindmaster]

From a Buddhist or Hindu perspective, what happens if I have no desire for liberation from the cycle of death and rebirth? I am quite content if that cycle continues as is. To me it's just another desire and I thought the whole point was to rid oneself of all desire.

From a Hindu perspective, even the desire for liberation is a problem if it is done from the mind and not the heart. Whether you want it or not, you will eventually find it (if you pre-dispose toward goodness or harmony) or rebirth again with even more entrapment into the "play of the mind" that you approach this subject from already.

It's hard to understand this without knowing about something called the gunas (a string or strand of tendencies): sattvic (peace, harmony, virtue, selfless action), rajasic (action or thought based on delusion via maya), or tamasic (ignorance, laziness, etc.). These are much more complicated than this, but basically they operate on the "like attracts like" principal. Thus, living according to dharma would tend you toward sattvic action and ultimately increase your chances of liberation through positive karma. (karma yoga is a thing) All else moves you away from it via the same process. That could move you to the destination if you weren't even actively seeking it.

There is a catch in that the cycle doesn't continue forever and restarts. When it restarts, those whom have achieved liberation continue to exist as eternal beings, those that haven't are wiped off the board and destroyed with the creations they're attached to since those beings cannot commune with or exist in the heavenly realm due to their natures.

 

[George-ananda]

Good response! What if one already realizes that Oneness? It just seems like there is nothing more to realize.

Can we imagine what the experience of Oneness is?? As opposed to the drop just understanding the concept of Oneness through a single ego mind.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

See knowledge isn't enough. Thinking we have the understanding of oneness must give way to practice. Otherwise the knowledge takes us nowhere. If knowledge were enough from a Buddhist perspective- suffering would vanish quickly from this world. Yet it persists.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Can we imagine what the experience of Oneness is?? As opposed to the drop just understanding the concept of Oneness through a single ego mind.

That's a good point. There is a difference.

 

[Mindmaster]

Can we imagine what the experience of Oneness is?? As opposed to the drop just understanding the concept of Oneness through a single ego mind.

It is like describing love accurately, it's nearly impossible. It's there, or it's not and you 'know' it or don't. Anyone who hasn't had it can't really understand it, and those whom have do their best metaphor soup to convey it, but that's the best they can do.

The "metaphor soup" is purely so you know you're on the right track mind you, other people have sailed these seas before and some left you a boat and a map. So, it's not an entirely futile pursuit, just not easy.

 

[Runewolf1973]

See knowledge isn't enough. Thinking we have the understanding of oneness must give way to practice. Otherwise the knowledge takes us nowhere. If knowledge were enough from a Buddhist perspective- suffering would vanish quickly from this world. Yet it persists.

That's why I'm not interested in seeking or attaining anything. I'm content with just being and letting nature sort itself out.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

That's why I'm not interested in seeking or attaining anything. I'm content with just being and letting nature sort itself out.

And how is that working out for the world today?

 

[YmirGF]

Good response! What if one already realizes that Oneness? It just seems like there is nothing more to realize...may as well just enjoy the ride for the sake of the ride.

I utterly assure you there is much beyond the tantalizing sensations of Oneness. Much more, if the truth be told.

And how is that working out for the world today?

You are shifting the goal posts. @Runewolf1973 is talking personally, not as a mouthpiece for the whole race.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

You are shifting the goal posts. @Runewolf1973 is talking personally, not as a mouthpiece for the whole race.

He may be talking personally, but his approach seems to be the one taken by more and more people. I am not attempting to go after anyone for speaking personally.

 

[Runewolf1973]

And how is that working out for the world today?

For humans not so much because people are too hung up on worldly things...greed...lust...desire... In the animal kingdom, if humans weren't around it would work just fine. Nature finds a way.

On a personal level, I do what I have to do to get by in the world, but I try not to dwell on it. Whatever come comes. I'm not here to push the river.

 

[sayak83]

From a Buddhist or Hindu perspective, what happens if I have no desire for liberation from the cycle of death and rebirth? I am quite content if that cycle continues as is. To me it's just another desire and I thought the whole point was to rid oneself of all desire.

You would still wish good rebirth. So it's in your interest to be moral and ethical in your life and do good deeds and be compassionate. These bring rewards in this life and in the next..on average. Hinduism considers being good and ethical in pursuit of family, material and sensual happiness as worthy goals in and of themselves. Hinduism has a list of 10 recommendation for this purpose.

Yamas and Niyamas - वेद Veda
These 10 yamas and niyamas are considered the first stages of any Hindu practice and appropriate for any lay person.