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Question for people that believe in evolution

F

footprints

Well-Known Member
Tristesse said:
If it's not "a day" that we observe by todays standards, than whats the point of calling it a day? That kind of terminology can be very confusing.
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What can I say Tristesse, things change, an atheist today isn't what the first atheist was. What an ancient culture such as the nomadic Hebrew called a day (rembering they had no watches, calendars, couldn't even write), could be a 24 hour period as we define a day or it could be equivalent to that of the ancient Mayan Galactic Day, or it could be another value all together. Such is the realm of possibility and probability.
 
T

Tristesse

Well-Known Member
footprints said:
What can I say Tristesse, things change, an atheist today isn't what the first atheist was. What an ancient culture such as the nomadic Hebrew called a day (rembering they had no watches, calendars, couldn't even write), could be a 24 hour period as we define a day or it could be equivalent to that of the ancient Mayan Galactic Day, or it could be another value all together. Such is the realm of possibility and probability.
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What I'm saying is that the terminology can be a little misleading. What did the mayans call an actual day? You know the period of time from sunrise to sunset?
 
F

footprints

Well-Known Member
Tristesse said:
What I'm saying is that the terminology can be a little misleading. What did the mayans call an actual day? You know the period of time from sunrise to sunset?
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To the best of my knowledge there are no records of the early Mayan history, we jump into this history after they have left the hunter and gatherer stage. The bible on the other hand clearly shows and indicates the hunter and gatherer state in the garden of eden.

Terminology is always misleading when we cannot interpret things clearly, trying to read the minds of ancient cultures isn't really logical when we haven't anything to go on. Even when we do have something to go on, the written word itself is just as misleading if we haven't captured their exact thinking. The good news for human intelligence is we can always make something up to fit in this place which makes sense to our intelligence, Else we can just put every scenario there and know that one of them is possibly correct.
 
tumbleweed41

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
footprints said:
What an ancient culture such as the nomadic Hebrew called a day (rembering they had no watches, calendars, couldn't even write), could be a 24 hour period as we define a day or it could be equivalent to that of the ancient Mayan Galactic Day, or it could be another value all together. Such is the realm of possibility and probability.
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Unless you consider that the writing of the accounts in Genesis occurred in the 8th century BCE. An era where marking time, calenders, and writing were known by the nomadic tribes that eventually formed the Hebrew tribes. Not to mention that these concepts were known before then by Sumerian and Egyptian societies.

In fact, one can look at the Sumerian "Enuma Elish" to see where the Hebrew writers, both J and E, got the basis for myths from the Creation to the Flood.
Only the E writer mentions days, the J writer goes over the creation again without regard to 'days'. To J, days were not important to the story.


The debate of 'days' is a futile one. An argument thought up only recently by Creationists attempting to fit evolution and the geological record into the Biblical record. No reputable Hebrew scholar would even consider it.
 
painted wolf

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
The problem with day-age creationism is that it still doesn't match the fossil record or logic.
Plants are created before sunlight for example.

The problem with trying to take creation myths as fact is that the logical hoops you need to jump through only end up tying your mind into knots.

Such stories are meant to teach basic lessons and provide a cohesive beginning for members of a particular culture. That's why every culture has a different creation tale.

by the way.. new transitional fossil whale discovered! :jiggy:
Australian fossil unlocks secrets to the origin of whales

wa:do
 
F

footprints

Well-Known Member
tumbleweed41 said:
Unless you consider that the writing of the accounts in Genesis occurred in the 8th century BCE. An era where marking time, calenders, and writing were known by the nomadic tribes that eventually formed the Hebrew tribes. Not to mention that these concepts were known before then by Sumerian and Egyptian societies.

In fact, one can look at the Sumerian "Enuma Elish" to see where the Hebrew writers, both J and E, got the basis for myths from the Creation to the Flood.
Only the E writer mentions days, the J writer goes over the creation again without regard to 'days'. To J, days were not important to the story.


The debate of 'days' is a futile one. An argument thought up only recently by Creationists attempting to fit evolution and the geological record into the Biblical record. No reputable Hebrew scholar would even consider it.
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I might consider a date such as 8th Century BCE, albeit I wouldn't consider it relevant to anything. However, if it suits your belief, then by all means take this date seriously as if it has a specific meaning.

No ancient culture who lived in an initial hunter and gatherer state, knew how to write. By the late hunter and gatherer state they had started to draw pictures. writing came much later.

Look you may consider Hebrew scholars to be the be all and end all of ancient cultures, as for me, I will respect their view, then go with the greater knowledge available.

Seasons Greetings.
 
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G

George Campbell

Member
Tristesse said:
Evolution doesn't say that a fruit fly will one day turn into a dog, or that any modern animal will turn into any other modern animal. Evolution is the theory of genetic material within a population of organisms that change from one generation to the next.
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And today with access to DNA material they have proven a positive link all the way back to 65 million years ago when the dinosaurs were wiped out by a major catastrophe. Only the very naive or ignorant or brainwashed fail to see it.
 
imaginaryme

imaginaryme

Active Member
painted wolf said:
The problem with day-age creationism is that it still doesn't match the fossil record or logic.
Plants are created before sunlight for example.

The problem with trying to take creation myths as fact is that the logical hoops you need to jump through only end up tying your mind into knots.

Such stories are meant to teach basic lessons and provide a cohesive beginning for members of a particular culture. That's why every culture has a different creation tale.

by the way.. new transitional fossil whale discovered! :jiggy:
Australian fossil unlocks secrets to the origin of whales

wa:do
Click to expand...
Evolution - every day, something new.
Creationism -
Hello? Hello? Is there anybody out there...

It's not that I do not have sympathy for believers (well, in the real world :D), but to me, the beauty and diversity of scientific endeavor is to the glory of god; whereas fanatical denial is to the folly of man.
 
painted wolf

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
oh I find that the study of evolution does wonders for my faith in creator. Science is the greatest tool for understanding the universe beyond ourselves, spirituality is the tool for internalizing and learning from it.

wa:do
 
G

George Campbell

Member
painted wolf said:
oh I find that the study of evolution does wonders for my faith in creator. Science is the greatest tool for understanding the universe beyond ourselves, spirituality is the tool for internalizing and learning from it.

wa:do
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In other words blind faith in an unproven hereafter exists in the mind and only in the mind. Have at it!
 
imaginaryme

imaginaryme

Active Member
George Campbell said:
In other words blind faith in an unproven hereafter exists in the mind and only in the mind. Have at it!
Click to expand...
See what happens? Wolf pack attack! :D

Perhaps you should be thinking about converting your cash into gold like I suggested (so you don't wake up as broke as I am :D) and stop being so dang contentious. :p
 
tumbleweed41

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
footprints said:
I might consider a date such as 8th Century BCE, albeit I wouldn't consider it relevant to anything. However, if it suits your belief, then by all means take this date seriously as if it has a specific meaning.
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The relevance of the 8th Century BCE would only be of import to those interested in the writing of the Torah, you know, where this ridiculous day/age debate comes from...

footprints said:
No ancient culture who lived in an initial hunter and gatherer state, knew how to write. By the late hunter and gatherer state they had started to draw pictures. writing came much later.
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The point being, when writing began, timekeeping and calendars also developed.


footprints said:
Look you may consider Hebrew scholars to be the be all and end all of ancient cultures, as for me, I will respect their view, then go with the greater knowledge available.
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When discussing a asinine statements such as "No one knows how long a day was in creation" , in relation to Biblical Literalistic creation stories, one should stick with historical relevance. And not get sidetracked with a Mesoamerican civilization whose earliest writings are estimated at around 250 BCE
 
Jose Fly

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
painted wolf said:
oh I find that the study of evolution does wonders for my faith in creator. Science is the greatest tool for understanding the universe beyond ourselves, spirituality is the tool for internalizing and learning from it.

wa:do
Click to expand...

See, I have to agree with George here. I can't for the life of me understand how anyone can look at the evolutionary history of life on earth and take away anything about a "creator" except that if one exists, it isn't deserving of any respect.

What do you "internalize" when you see a male lion kill and eat all the cubs when he takes over a pride? What do you "internalize" when you see what toxoplasmosis does to a newborn baby? What do you "internalize" when you see evidence of comets and asteroids smashing into the earth and killing almost everything on the planet? What do you "internalize" when you understand that the inescapable fate of the universe is death?

All I've ever seen from those who say things like "evolution adds to my belief in God" is vague, warm-fuzzy, feel-good platitudes that even a cursory examination shows to be empty. From my perspective, it looks like someone telling themselves, "I really need to believe this, so I'm going to no matter what".
 
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