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Question about two things paul said in the bible that are getting to me

Discussion in 'Religions Q&A' started by Frank Goad, Aug 29, 2019.

  1. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Active Member

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    In 2 Corinthians 5:1-9.It says in verse 8 it says it would be better to be absent from the body and present with the lord.And it says in verse 9 that some people might be like that already.Also in 1 Thessalonians 4:1-18.It says in verses 13 and 14 and 16 That those that are asleep in death jesus will bring with him.And jesus will come down from heaven at the sound of a trumpet.And the dead in christ will rise first.To me the dead that rise first look like the dead in 2 Corinthians 5:9.Do you see were I am going with this?:(
     
  2. steveb1

    steveb1 Member

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    Just a guess: Paul conceptualized that the "inner man" would be stored with Christ in heaven until the end times general resurrection, in which the righteous would then be issued "spiritual bodies" and live on a perfect, restored earth.
     
  3. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    Dead means spiritually dead, i.e. psychic - natural . 1 Cor 2. Resurrection of the dead is when psychic becomes spiritual , 1 Cor 15. Paul was able to attain OBE at will.
     
  4. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Active Member

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    leov were in the bible does it say paul went out of body at will?:confused:
     
  5. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    Not only Paul. Acts is where it mentioned a few times. If you go to biblehub site type word “trance” in search.
     
  6. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Question for jehovah's witness
     
  7. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    To answer your question... Evidently the two verses coincide.
    If you read 2 Corinthians 5:1-9, it says very plainly, that the anointed looked forward to gaining a body like Christ.
    Does it mean an out of body experience, or a soul migrating to heaven, to get a spiritual covering? Paul answers, 'No'.
    Please read 1 Corinthians 15:35-58, and see my post here, on that scripture.
     
  8. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Active Member

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    In your post You talked about 2 Corinthians 5:1-9.But not about all the other bible verses I posted about back to back.Why?:( My post is right above yours.
     
  9. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I did refer to the other scriptures (1 Thessalonians 4:1-18.).
    ...the two verses scriptures coincide / relate to each other.
    Did you read the scriptures in 1 Corinthians, and did you look at the post I linked, under that scripture?
    It is all explained there.

    If you are still confused, after reading those, let me know what confuses you.
     
  10. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Active Member

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    Sorry.I guess i wasn't reading it right.Thanks for the clarification!:)
     
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  11. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    What does Paul say?......

    "For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, should be torn down, we are to have a building from God, a house not made with hands, everlasting in the heavens. 2 For in this house we do indeed groan, earnestly desiring to put on the one for us from heaven, 3 so that when we do put it on, we will not be found naked. 4 In fact, we who are in this tent groan, being weighed down, because we do not want to put this one off, but we want to put the other on, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now the one who prepared us for this very thing is God, who gave us the spirit as a token of what is to come.*
    6 So we are always of good courage and know that while we have our home in the body, we are absent from the Lord, 7 for we are walking by faith, not by sight. 8 But we are of good courage and would prefer to be absent from the body and to make our home with the Lord. 9 So whether at home with him or absent from him, we make it our aim to be acceptable to him.
    "

    If you understand Paul's words from his understanding rather than from Christendom's teachings, you will not see any reference to an immortal soul.

    With the anointing of God's spirit, the "elect" are given an inordinate desire to join their Lord in heaven. Material human bodies cannot live in the spirit realm. So, in order for God to take these humans to heaven, he has to dispose of their fleshly body and give them a new spiritual body, just like he did with Jesus. It's the same person, but in a different body.

    Romans 6:3-5...as Paul says....
    "3 Or do you not know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 So we were buried with him through our baptism into his death, in order that just as Christ was raised up from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also should walk in a newness of life. 5 If we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will certainly also be united with him in the likeness of his resurrection."

    Their human flesh is a barrier to their entering heaven, so it has to be transformed into a body that can dwell in the presence of God.

    No one knew how long it would be before Christ's return. (Matthew 24:36)

    Since Jesus said that he would come back and raise his elect "first".....when would that resurrection take place?
    Christ said that he would give us a sign of his "presence" (not his coming) as King in the form of a series of world events that would identify the time of his return. This is not a visible return because a visible return would need no sign as an indication of its occurring. (Matthew 24:3)

    We believe that Jesus returned in 1914 with the first part of the sign being unprecedented war. That year saw the first global conflict in human history. Other parts of the sign included famine, pestilence, great earthquakes, false religious leaders, increasing of lawlessness and the love of the greater number growing cold. (Matthew 24:7-14) As these last days have progressed, we have seen these signs in an unprecedented way.
    There would also be a global preaching of the good news about this kingdom. This would be the world's final witness before God's judgment, by means of his son.

    If Jesus resurrected his elect from that time onward, then the majority of his chosen ones are already in heaven, in their position as "kings and priests". Paul confirms that by saying that the dead who were sleeping would not be raised apart from those alive at this period of time. (1 Thessalonians 4:14-15) They would be raised together.

    Those who died during these last days had no reason to "sleep" in death, but would be raised immediately to heaven. He goes on to say....
    "the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord."

    "Look! I tell you a sacred secret: We will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we will be changed." (1 Corinthians 15:51-52)

    This is the conclusion of this world system and the introduction of God's Kingdom (with Jesus and his co-rulers) to take over world rulership as foretold by Daniel. (Daniel 2:44)

    Those of the elect, who are still alive when "the end" comes, (a separate event to his presence) will be transformed into spirit beings instantaneously and taken up to be with Jesus as part of his heavenly forces.

    This is what we believe the scriptures teach. We are deep into the time of the end.
     
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