Putting the "Christ in Christmas"

[tumbleweed41]

That's fine with me. Most of the symbolic images associated with Easter are from a pagan origin anyway.

Indeed they are.
As are most of the symbolic images and traditions associated with Christmas.

 

[JayJayDee]

Regardless of the consumerism, the mere fact it's called "Christmas" (Christ-mass) seems to declare it a Christian holiday.
Whether myself or others celebrate it as such, or just a seasonal holiday, doesn't change this fact, IMO.

"the mere fact it's called "Christmas" (Christ-mass)" does not mean that it is "Christian" at all. I think a lot of people would be surprised at just how paganized their 'Christianity' actually is.

That's fine with me. Most of the symbolic images associated with Easter are from a pagan origin anyway.

Just another chapter in the church's book of adoption. How many homeless waifs did the church take in to give them a new home?

Even the name of the goddess 'Easter' (Astarte, Ishtar, Ostera, Eostre) was not changed in this shameless adaptation of a fertility festival. Rabbits, chickens, eggs.....where do we imagine they come? What do any of them have to do with the death of Jesus Christ?

 

[SageTree]

Metaphor makes a lot of symbols adaptable and fairly pliable.

Not everyone likes the idea of syncreticism, but in my opinion, there isn't a religion out there that hasn't adopted this or that as a mode of expression within their own traditions.

That is life. It's a syncretic event
Conditions phenomena encountering condition phenomena,
creating different conditioned..... well... you get it, no?

 

[Desert Snake]

Indeed they are.
As are most of the symbolic images and traditions associated with Christmas.

The nativity scene and the name of the holiday are both Christian by origin, and there has to be other symbols that I'm not aware of. Of course there is pagan symbolism in Christmas.

Cheers.

 

[Desert Snake]

"the mere fact it's called "Christmas" (Christ-mass)" does not mean that it is "Christian" at all. I think a lot of people would be surprised at just how paganized their 'Christianity' actually is.

Just another chapter in the church's book of adoption. How many homeless waifs did the church take in to give them a new home?

Even the name of the goddess 'Easter' (Astarte, Ishtar, Ostera, Eostre) was not changed in this shameless adaptation of a fertility festival. Rabbits, chickens, eggs.....where do we imagine they come? What do any of them have to do with the death of Jesus Christ?

Interesting, I take it that you're implying that the Christian aspect of the holidays gets lost in all the pagan symbolism. I think regardless of the symbols associated with say, Christmas, wouldn't you still have the consumerist holiday that it has become for so many people?

I can't agree with you about the holidays becoming non-Christian merely because of the symbolism, however. Pagan symbolism is everywhere in European culture, it's only natural that it is part of the Christian holidays.

Cheers.

 

[JayJayDee]

Interesting, I take it that you're implying that the Christian aspect of the holidays gets lost in all the pagan symbolism.

No, what I am saying is that the 'Christian' aspect of Christmas was never there in the first place.

Jesus was not born anywhere near Dec 25th. But the pagan citizens of the Roman Empire celebrated the saturnalia at that time. It was one of their favorite feast times, with unrestrained eating and drinking, gift giving and merry making....the new 'Christian' religion declared by Emperor Constantine didn't allow for the worship of pagan gods. There was only one thing to do.....turn the pagan festival into a "Christian" one....then everyone is happy, right? Nobody asked God evidently, who inspired Paul to write 2 Cor 6:14-18. He made it very clear that there can be no mixing of truth with falsehood....of Christ and the devil (Belial)

I think regardless of the symbols associated with say, Christmas, wouldn't you still have the consumerist holiday that it has become for so many people?

Ah...a rose by any other name??? Merry consumerist day....has a nice ring to it.....

Do you not see that Christmas promotes everything that the Bible condemns? Take a good look. Lying to children, overindulgence in food and drink, greed, adoption of pagan trees all dressed up in pretty lights? Yule logs? What are people really celebrating?

If it was not a pagan holiday (holy day) dressed up as a Christian celebration, there would be no problem. It's all in the compromise.

Did you know that the early Christians could have escaped death in the arenas if they had simply put a pinch of incense on an alter as an act of worship to the Emperor? They chose the lions....what is that telling you about compromise?

The Romans starved them and then offered them blood sausage, knowing that God's law forbade them to consume blood. Do you not see that satan is tempting people to compromise on something that appears to be innocent?

I can't agree with you about the holidays becoming non-Christian merely because of the symbolism, however. Pagan symbolism is everywhere in European culture, it's only natural that it is part of the Christian holidays.

LOL...natural for whom? :areyoucra

When the Israelites decided to hold "a festival to Jehovah"...the God who led them out of slavery in the land of Egypt, they chose to make an image of him that resembled a god they had seen worshipped there. They "got up to have a good time" it says. (Exodus 32:1-6)

Do you remember God's response to their activity? (Exodus 32:7-10; 25-28)

Jehovah is a "jealous" God...he will not tolerate the mixing of his worship with false worship of any kind....no matter how innocent it appears to be.

I also don't think its coincidental that "santa" is an anagram for "satan". He is a big fat lie who favors rich kids over poor ones. Parents tell their children that santa will come if they are good. What about the good kids whose parents have no money? What do you tell them? When are lies ever beneficial?

If parents lie to their children about santa claus....maybe they lie about God too? What are children supposed to think?

 

[Desert Snake]

No, what I am saying is that the 'Christian' aspect of Christmas was never there in the first place.

Jesus was not born anywhere near Dec 25th. But the pagan citizens of the Roman Empire celebrated the saturnalia at that time. It was one of their favorite feast times, with unrestrained eating and drinking, gift giving and merry making....the new 'Christian' religion declared by Emperor Constantine didn't allow for the worship of pagan gods. There was only one thing to do.....turn the pagan festival into a "Christian" one....then everyone is happy, right? Nobody asked God evidently, who inspired Paul to write 2 Cor 6:14-18. He made it very clear that there can be no mixing of truth with falsehood....of Christ and the devil (Belial)


Ah...a rose by any other name??? Merry consumerist day....has a nice ring to it.....

Do you not see that Christmas promotes everything that the Bible condemns? Take a good look. Lying to children, overindulgence in food and drink, greed, adoption of pagan trees all dressed up in pretty lights? Yule logs? What are people really celebrating?

If it was not a pagan holiday (holy day) dressed up as a Christian celebration, there would be no problem. It's all in the compromise.

Did you know that the early Christians could have escaped death in the arenas if they had simply put a pinch of incense on an alter as an act of worship to the Emperor? They chose the lions....what is that telling you about compromise?
An act of worship to the Emperor and having a Christmas tree seem like two very different things.

The Romans starved them and then offered them blood sausage, knowing that God's law forbade them to consume blood. Do you not see that satan is tempting people to compromise on something that appears to be innocent?


LOL...natural for whom? :areyoucra
Europeans who were celebrating Christmas, Christianity was introduced to Europe, so there were already traditions and symbolism existing in those cultures.

When the Israelites decided to hold "a festival to Jehovah"...the God who led them out of slavery in the land of Egypt, they chose to make an image of him that resembled a god they had seen worshipped there. They "got up to have a good time" it says. (Exodus 32:1-6)

Do you remember God's response to their activity? (Exodus 32:7-10; 25-28)

Jehovah is a "jealous" God...he will not tolerate the mixing of his worship with false worship of any kind....no matter how innocent it appears to be.

I also don't think its coincidental that "santa" is an anagram for "satan". He is a big fat lie who favors rich kids over poor ones. Parents tell their children that santa will come if they are good. What about the good kids whose parents have no money? What do you tell them? When are lies ever beneficial?
On this we have some agreement. Although Saint Nicholas was real, we are being presented with a character who lives at the north pole and flies around in a sleigh at the winter solstice. And why exactly out of all the words for "saint" was "Santa" chosen? :sarcastic
(I'm being sarcastic here, that theory is a bit of a stretch IMO)

If parents lie to their children about santa claus....maybe they lie about God too? What are children supposed to think?

IDK I was never taught to believe in Santa.

 

[JayJayDee]

"Do you not see that Christmas promotes everything that the Bible condemns? Take a good look. Lying to children, overindulgence in food and drink, greed, adoption of pagan trees all dressed up in pretty lights? Yule logs? What are people really celebrating?

If it was not a pagan holiday (holy day) dressed up as a Christian celebration, there would be no problem. It's all in the compromise.

Did you know that the early Christians could have escaped death in the arenas if they had simply put a pinch of incense on an alter as an act of worship to the Emperor? They chose the lions....what is that telling you about compromise?

An act of worship to the Emperor and having a Christmas tree seem like two very different things.

If the Christmas tree was formerly a religious symbol connected to the worship of false gods, then the compromise is clearly visible to me.

What do Paul's words mean ?

“You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of ‘the table of Jehovah’ and the table of demons.” “‘Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’; ‘and I will take you in.’” (1 Cor. 10:21; 2 Cor. 6:17)

Do you think mixing them has God's approval? Isn't that the main consideration instead of justifying something that must clearly offend him?

LOL...natural for whom? :areyoucra
Europeans who were celebrating Christmas, Christianity was introduced to Europe, so there were already traditions and symbolism existing in those cultures.

When the Israelites were going to enter the Promised Land, God gave them explicit instructions concerning the adoption of the pagan practices of the land's inhabitants.

“When you are entered into the land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not learn to do according to the detestable things of those nations. There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, a practicer of magic or anyone who looks for omens or a sorcerer, or one who binds others with a spell or anyone who consults a spirit medium or a professional foreteller of events or anyone who inquires of the dead. For everybody doing these things is something detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable things Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you. You should prove yourself faultless with Jehovah your God." (Deut 18:9-13)

Do you see any leeway there to adopt ANY pagan religious practice? So much of what has been adopted from these pagan customs is steeped in magic.

IDK I was never taught to believe in Santa.

Thankfully I learned the truth about 'the silly season' before I had children, so belief in this fraud was never passed on to them or to their children.
We give gifts throughout the year for no other reason than that we love each other.
There is no date on a calendar that dictates to my family when it is "time" to spend money on them.

I always marvel at how enslaved people are to a tradition that has become an enormous burden to them financially, and socially. (and so many other ways)
The "happy family tradition" has become the catalyst for much conflict as the "happy families" disintegrate and fight over which parent they will spend Christmas with.

Ask your law enforcement officers how much they enjoy this time of year. Domestic violence escalates and alcohol related incidents are constant reasons for call outs.

Merry Consumerist Day? Happy Greed Fest? Let's Have a Punch up Day? Let's Whine About What we Didn't Get for Christmas Day? Good Grief Charlie Brown!