Pros and cons of Catholicism.

[Kenny]

How?

If god existed before humans he would not be a reflection of ourselves. There would be no religion to define god making god not christ nor vishnu nor consciousness.

How?

First, I think it is the other way around. It isn't that He would not be a reflection of ourselves but rather because He did exist before humans, we are a reflection of Him.

Second, man didn't and doesn't need a book to define God. On the Christian side, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses didn't have a book but found themselves worshipping God.

Lastly, more than likely other religions did the same as the worshipping of a god is almost universal and instinctive.

Writing about worship experiences is usually a result of it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

First, I think it is the other way around. It isn't that He would not be a reflection of ourselves but rather because He did exist before humans, we are a reflection of Him.

Second, man didn't and doesn't need a book to define God. On the Christian side, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses didn't have a book but found themselves worshipping God.

Lastly, more than likely other religions did the same as the worshipping of a god is almost universal and instinctive.

Writing about worship experiences is usually a result of it.

Writing about experiences of an spirit being does not equal to him actually existing. Your feeling and connection to god does not change the fact of whether he exists or not. What we do know is that religion shapes how we define god. If I looked at a tree, we may discribe it different ways but we all come to the same conclusion regardless language and culture.

God is not like that. He is defined differently and your god is not the same as the god of the person next to you. In order for your god to exist like the tree there need to be main characteristics god has that is not defined in the bible, vedas, and pagan text (to name s few). It has to be outside of our description.

We can have faith, theorize, talk about, and depend on our experiences but that does not equal god existing without us.

You would have to proove that god is not a reflection of by not referring to any experience and thing on earth.

Another reason for god being a creation of man is in many many religious text god sent man to die die. Not an alien. Not anyone outside of our planet. Everything we talk about god is centered around what We experience.

God/the experience does not and cannot exist apart from humans. Humans are not the center of the universe.

God would have to talk with all living in all parts of the galaxy. Religious text do not describe god a part from human experiences.

Name a characteristic of god that is not a human trait of whst we want, need, or experience.

 

[columbus]

On the Christian side, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses didn't have a book but found themselves worshipping God.

I find it deeply ironic that Christians appropriated the Hebrew's prophets.
It was clearly those prophets image of God and attitudes towards God that resulted in the Jews dismissal of Jesus as a rabble rouser. Jesus didn't match the description of Messiah, they didn't accept the concept of demi-god, much less Trinity.
So the new religion was much more credible to non-Jewish people than The Chosen People.
Tom

 

[metis]

I went to Mass this morning to honor my grandmother. While there, it was interesting as I observe everything that is supposed to be "bad" I experienced the opposite. So, as we are kneeling and standing, the homily came. The priest gave a talk about "how to hear god's voice." Basically, do we take the time to listen to god talking and how do we take the time. Well, for me, I was translating it as how the spirits can listen to me and how can I listen to them. He continues that of course god doesn't talk through an audible voice. Rather instead of playing with our phones and spending too much time with our children take some time and be at service for the lord.

He says it's alright to give money to the church but he says "that's the easy way out." What he said was instead do charity work. Teach others, give your time and skill (that's what it was), time and skill for others. "You may not know what you are good at but as long as you can take what you know and give it to others that's the work of christ moving through you."

That's how you "hear god" is through the body of christ.

If anyone is asking how they can hear god or even understand the nature of the church, that's basically it. What I took from it was that my grandmother was with me and telling me this message. I don't have a personal relationship with christ. I don't know the dude and he's not even an ancestor to me. However, christ just means anointed and the body of christ is the people. So basically, christians are anointed people acting in service in the name of christ.

Anyway, had to share that.

Cheerios!

I very much appreciate what you wrote above, and my approach isn't that much different from yours. I question a lot, and yet I feel comfortable in any religious setting whereas love, compassion, justice, and fairness are not only taught but also acted upon. Therefore, I feel very much at "home" in my wife's church as well as many other places of worship.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I very much appreciate what you wrote above, and my approach isn't that much different from yours. I question a lot, and yet I feel comfortable in any religious setting whereas love, compassion, justice, and fairness are not only taught but also acted upon. Therefore, I feel very much at "home" in my wife's church as well as many other places of worship.

Exactly. I feel at home in many other places of worship as well. When people come together in the same compassion and humility, the simple act of working together, I find solace in that. Very profound. Its good you have that outlook. Not many do.

 

[Kenny]

Writing about experiences of an spirit being does not equal to him actually existing. Your feeling and connection to god does not change the fact of whether he exists or not. What we do know is that religion shapes how we define god. If I looked at a tree, we may discribe it different ways but we all come to the same conclusion regardless language and culture.

Maybe I misunderstood your question. I understood you to say that if we were to start over with no books or records, whether or not we would believe there is a God.

But to follow this statement.

Religion does and can shape what people can believe. But I don't believe it translate into the same conclusion. We have atheists, agnostics as well as people who believe that you must be reborn multiple times or one with "the force" that is out there to "there is no evil" etc.

I simplify it into two categories: 1) Man's attempt to become one with God or become a god and 2) God's attempt to reach man to become one with Him.

God is not like that. He is defined differently and your god is not the same as the god of the person next to you. In order for your god to exist like the tree there need to be main characteristics god has that is not defined in the bible, vedas, and pagan text (to name s few). It has to be outside of our description.

Again, we are back to what I said in the previous post. Adam, Seth, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses did not have a book (Moses being the first to write one), and yet they all believed in the same God.

And yet, each (by oral tradition) declared the main characteristics of God.

We can have faith, theorize, talk about, and depend on our experiences but that does not equal god existing without us.

No it doesn't. However, it doesn't negate that God does exist without us. Right?

You would have to prove that god is not a reflection of by not referring to any experience and thing on earth.

To be frank, I don't subscribe to that logic. Many people understand artists through the paintings that they create. As a matter of fact, many psychologists use what children draw to know what they are going through.

I think that by looking at the artistic qualities of man and earth, along with driving purpose, does reflect on who God is.

Another reason for god being a creation of man is in many many religious text god sent man to die die. Not an alien. Not anyone outside of our planet. Everything we talk about god is centered around what We experience.

Again... I don't disagree that religion CAN do that. Man DOES have the capacity to create a god. (not shouting). But I don't think that one negates the other. There are many stories about Daniel Boone---some are created but some are real.

God/the experience does not and cannot exist apart from humans. Humans are not the center of the universe.

And one knows that... how?

God would have to talk with all living in all parts of the galaxy. Religious text do not describe god a part from human experiences.

Name a characteristic of god that is not a human trait of whst we want, need, or experience.

First, we would have to find more living parts in the galaxy, wouldn't we?

 

[Kenny]

I find it deeply ironic that Christians appropriated the Hebrew's prophets.
It was clearly those prophets image of God and attitudes towards God that resulted in the Jews dismissal of Jesus as a rabble rouser. Jesus didn't match the description of Messiah, they didn't accept the concept of demi-god, much less Trinity.
So the new religion was much more credible to non-Jewish people than The Chosen People.
Tom

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Adam, Seth, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses did not have a book (Moses being the first to write one), and yet they all believed in the same God.

Adam and Seth have no factual basis. Prior to deciding that his god was the best god, and therefore the only god, Abraham was a polytheist. Well, his family was polytheistic; he was apparently the rebellious black sheep of the family. Ergo why Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are referred to as "Abrahamic" religions; you all worship the god of Abraham.

I think the point of this experiment was lost; I'm going to make a separate thread for it.

 

[Kenny]

Adam and Seth have no factual basis. Prior to deciding that his god was the best god, and therefore the only god, Abraham was a polytheist. Well, his family was polytheistic; he was apparently the rebellious black sheep of the family. Ergo why Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are referred to as "Abrahamic" religions; you all worship the god of Abraham.

I think the point of this experiment was lost; I'm going to make a separate thread for it.

I guess your viewpoint is just as a valid viewpoint as far as stories go.

However, since this story was written differently, I would rather go with the original version. Especially from Abraham to Moses since there is only a 5 generation gap. So I'll go with the version Moses gave.