Prophethood in Judaism?

[Caladan]

ok, Guess I need to go find my sense of humor... Sometimes it is hard to read on a page to get the sense of what someone means.

Yeap I know. I was thinking it was one of those cases I could be anal retentive and get away with it

Sorry Caladan!

Don't be. I actually agree with everything you said, but wanted to get it out in the open the longer way! on an internet forum, sometimes it works, sometime it doesn't work.
often the female Biblical figures are a classic case study for issues contemporary to Jewish society today.

 

[Follow_The_Truth]

Caladan and levite. In the topic "beleaf of judgement day" there is a list which comes from a jewish site. On that site it states that David and Soloman are Prophets..so why the difference of opinion..you guys say they are not prophets but the jewish site says that they are prohets??

 

[Levite]

Caladan and levite. In the topic "beleaf of judgement day" there is a list which comes from a jewish site. On that site it states that David and Soloman are Prophets..so why the difference of opinion..you guys say they are not prophets but the jewish site says that they are prohets??

I can't speak for the site in question. It may be a site that has non-traditional beliefs. But more probably, it is likely an error of ignorance, conflating two related but different concepts.

I mentioned previously that there is a common mistake of combining the concept of nevu'ah ("prophecy") and ruach ha-kodesh ("inspiration of the divine spirit") which are both kinds of receiving inspiration from God, but are very different kinds of revelation. In fact, the latter may involve very little revelation at all, and is generally of no overarching social importance. But there is a difference.

And while the tradition does not consider David and Solomon to be nevi'im (prophets) it does teach that both were at least sometimes gifted with ruach ha-kodesh (divine spiritual inspiration).

It is a subtle difference, but it is, functionally, an important one: the two categories are not the same, and while both are admirable examples of spiritual heights, one is obligated to follow the words of a prophet and consider their prophecy as divine revelation; but while one is obligated to respect the fruits of the inspiration of one given ruach ha-kodesh, one is not obligated to follow their words or consider their teachings to be prophecy.

This difference is often misunderstood, and I would not be at all surprised if the site in question so misunderstood the traditions.

Edit: I just saw the post that Tamar made in the other thread. She is quoting an old text called Seder Olam Rabbah. First of all, this text is not binding: it is a collection of midrash, which are exegetical parables, which exist as a pool of potential theological and ethical teachings, none of which is definitively incumbent upon the reader to accept as truth. Second of all, it is a classic example of this confusion between nevu'ah and ruach ha-kodesh, the difference between which is often elided in midrash for literary or homiletical purposes.

 

[Follow_The_Truth]

Oke but did Soloman and David get messages from God from jewish view.. you say ruach ha-kodesh(divine spiritual inspiration) what must i understand by that?

For example have angels talk with them to give them a message for example.. you know Lot, angels came to him right? With a normal person angels don't talk with them..so how do jewish people see this.. in the case that angels talk with Lot..why he is not considered as a prophet.. a normal person as you and me, angels don't talk with us.

And does Judaism teach that David has got devine inspirition from God or not? And why if he get that, he's not a prophet in judaism, normals persons don't get devine inspiriration right..

Ok hope to see youre answer and thanks for youre time.
Greetings.

I can't speak for the site in question. It may be a site that has non-traditional beliefs. But more probably, it is likely an error of ignorance, conflating two related but different concepts.

I mentioned previously that there is a common mistake of combining the concept of nevu'ah ("prophecy") and ruach ha-kodesh ("inspiration of the divine spirit") which are both kinds of receiving inspiration from God, but are very different kinds of revelation. In fact, the latter may involve very little revelation at all, and is generally of no overarching social importance. But there is a difference.

And while the tradition does not consider David and Solomon to be nevi'im (prophets) it does teach that both were at least sometimes gifted with ruach ha-kodesh (divine spiritual inspiration).

It is a subtle difference, but it is, functionally, an important one: the two categories are not the same, and while both are admirable examples of spiritual heights, one is obligated to follow the words of a prophet and consider their prophecy as divine revelation; but while one is obligated to respect the fruits of the inspiration of one given ruach ha-kodesh, one is not obligated to follow their words or consider their teachings to be prophecy.

This difference is often misunderstood, and I would not be at all surprised if the site in question so misunderstood the traditions.

Edit: I just saw the post that Tamar made in the other thread. She is quoting an old text called Seder Olam Rabbah. First of all, this text is not binding: it is a collection of midrash, which are exegetical parables, which exist as a pool of potential theological and ethical teachings, none of which is definitively incumbent upon the reader to accept as truth. Second of all, it is a classic example of this confusion between nevu'ah and ruach ha-kodesh, the difference between which is often elided in midrash for literary or homiletical purposes.

 

[Levite]

Oke but did Soloman and David get messages from God from jewish view.. you say ruach ha-kodesh(divine spiritual inspiration) what must i understand by that?

For example have angels talk with them to give them a message for example.. you know Lot, angels came to him right? With a normal person angels don't talk with them..so how do jewish people see this.. in the case that angels talk with Lot..why he is not considered as a prophet.. a normal person as you and me, angels don't talk with us.

And does Judaism teach that David has got devine inspirition from God or not? And why if he get that, he's not a prophet in judaism, normals persons don't get devine inspiriration right..

Ok hope to see youre answer and thanks for youre time.
Greetings.

Traditionally, we are taught that anyone can get ruach ha-kodesh (divine inspiration), under certain circumstances, but also, that one can achieve ruach ha-kodesh as a result of highly developed spiritual awareness or power (either natural or gotten through disciplined study). That is part of what differentiates it from nevu'ah (prophecy), which cannot be spontaneous, nor can it be achieved through developed spiritual awareness, but is specifically given by God to that individual.

Likewise, just because a person hears something from God or speaks with God or meets angels does not necessarily mean they are a navi (prophet). Nevi'im (prophets) are not just people who hear God or speak with God-- something we are taught anyone and everyone has the potential to do (and we believe this may still happen)-- but are those who have received messages from God of overarching social importance, for delivery to a society or community at large, or on rarer occasions, to the leader of a society or community.

Thus, David's ruach ha-kodesh enabled him, among other things, to write Psalms, which are full of meaning and wise advice and beautiful comforting teachings. Solomon's ruach ha-kodesh not only made him wiser than most others, but it gave him the skills and crafts necessary to design and oversee the building of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem. And both did communicate with God. But neither of them were prophets.

 

[Follow_The_Truth]

Levite ok clear. Thanks a lot for the explanation!

Traditionally, we are taught that anyone can get ruach ha-kodesh (divine inspiration), under certain circumstances, but also, that one can achieve ruach ha-kodesh as a result of highly developed spiritual awareness or power (either natural or gotten through disciplined study). That is part of what differentiates it from nevu'ah (prophecy), which cannot be spontaneous, nor can it be achieved through developed spiritual awareness, but is specifically given by God to that individual.

Likewise, just because a person hears something from God or speaks with God or meets angels does not necessarily mean they are a navi (prophet). Nevi'im (prophets) are not just people who hear God or speak with God-- something we are taught anyone and everyone has the potential to do (and we believe this may still happen)-- but are those who have received messages from God of overarching social importance, for delivery to a society or community at large, or on rarer occasions, to the leader of a society or community.

Thus, David's ruach ha-kodesh enabled him, among other things, to write Psalms, which are full of meaning and wise advice and beautiful comforting teachings. Solomon's ruach ha-kodesh not only made him wiser than most others, but it gave him the skills and crafts necessary to design and oversee the building of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem. And both did communicate with God. But neither of them were prophets.