Producing life from non living matter

[FearGod]

Once we do that, will you admit that no god is required?

Of course, it's the challenge for the disbelievers, if we made it then the quran will be proved wrong, no escape of it.

 

[sayak83]

The OP is what I said but the quran's challenge is a fly, I mentioned it in another post.

O people, an example is presented, so listen to it. Indeed, those you invoke besides Allah will never create [as much as] a fly, even if they gathered together for that purpose. And if the fly should steal away from them a [tiny] thing, they could not recover it from him. Weak are the pursuer and pursued.(22:73)

Why do you think making a fly is so complicated? nature made it without even thinking.

No, nature's processes are far more complicated that thought. And nature took 3.5 billing years of complicated processes of evolution to get to a fly. Who told you nature's processes are simpler than that of a mind.? They are not. Mind is an infant when it compares with nature.

 

[columbus]

And next will be creating new species of flies from scratch, very optimistic indeed.

When my grandmother was born, the late 19th century, tons of things we now take for granted hadn't even been thought of. There wasn't even radio, much less Youtubes going viral. There weren't airplanes, much less spacecraft leaving the solar system.
Biotechnology is in it's infancy. Advances are coming faster and faster every year. Your OP is likely to look like the 19th century people saying "If God meant for us to fly He'd have given us wings." within the next few years.
Tom

 

[Jedster]

I have been working with computers my whole life and have always viewed their "senses" as a humans replication of the "dream realm," but for machines. I have dabbled with generating displays based on logical geometry; to create greater images. Echoes of Echoes that create even greater Echoes.

I feel like this is a part of life embedded on our universe that we are being kept from tapping into.
Do you think a fly has dreams? If so how complex? How complex are the "dreams" your computer has?

Reminded me of thsi from the film "The Fly"
Seth Brundle: I’m saying I’m an insect who dreamt he was a man and loved it. But now the dream is over and the insect is awake.

• The Fly

 

[FearGod]

When my grandmother was born, the late 19th century, tons of things we now take for granted hadn't even been thought of. There wasn't even radio, much less Youtubes going viral. There weren't airplanes, much less spacecraft leaving the solar system.
Biotechnology is in it's infancy. Advances are coming faster and faster every year. Your OP is likely to look like the 19th century people saying "If God meant for us to fly He'd have given us wings." within the next few years.
Tom

Imagine if God said in the quran that humans will never create a thing that can fly in the air as birds do,
such a verse will prove the quran wrong, imagine that we can easily create a living creature such as
the fly with such a great advancement in science, but we didn't and we can't.

The disbelievers used to say the quran isn't clear, when the quran says that the earth and the whole universe were one piece that being separated apart, they say the verse isn't clear, when it says that the earth was kind of a smoke then they say it wasn't exactly smoke, when it says that we made life out of water they say the verse wasn't clear and they may say that the prophet was studying the Greek science or guessing ...etc

 

[Milton Platt]

If life wasn't a product done by a creator, then what prevents us from creating it
the same way as it has been done by the unconscious nature.

This challenge was offered by God thousands years ago, as to create living creatures, can we?

Lack of sufficient knowledge. That is slowly changing. Why is that a problem for you?

 

[PositiveThinking09]

Reminded me of thsi from the film "The Fly"
Seth Brundle: I’m saying I’m an insect who dreamt he was a man and loved it. But now the dream is over and the insect is awake.

Once when I was showering a fly was trapped and kept ending up at the bottom. I put my finger under him and boosted him out. Sort of giving him the ability to walk up the walls and out of the shower. Afterwards he kept landing on my same hand and arm and was flying around with me. I took him outside to abandon him sadly... I felt it was better for him out there. Maybe the interaction would slightly alter his DNA in the opposite direction of how an army ant would come about... Maybe he would mate and there would be that random chain of flies that for some reason have a positive interest in other creatures. Possibly.. you know..

Imagine if God said in the quran that humans will never create a thing that can fly in the air as birds do,
such a verse will prove the quran wrong, imagine that we can easily create a living creature such as
the fly with such a great advancement in science, but we didn't and we can't.

This is very wise to put into focus. There is always much more out of view than we know. All of these books were made for other people.
Scientists are altering all kinds of biological organisms without brains; mixed with machines.
When we really grasp onto that last part of an inner self and a soul. There is too much to be said.

 

[james bond]

Reminded me of thsi from the film "The Fly"
Seth Brundle: I’m saying I’m an insect who dreamt he was a man and loved it. But now the dream is over and the insect is awake.

• The Fly

I enjoyed that movie, too. During that time, I worked with a guy who wore a blue l/s chambray shirt and black jeans. That's all he wore to work every day. He told me that is all he had as his casual wardrobe in order to not have to rack his brain on what to wear each day. He was like that before the movie.

The original movie and the reboot is that of a transportation machine theorized today as someone who goes through a wormhole. Hawking theorized it's like a smaller black hole with two openings and a tunnel that connects space.

 

[james bond]

If you follow God's thinking, he created fully mature organisms. One day you found an oak tree. Another day you found a chicken. It's still like this today when we discover new plants and animals. The only new plants and animals that evos create are artificially selected or GM ones requiring intelligence.

 

[Kirran]

If you follow God's thinking, he created fully mature organisms. One day you found an oak tree. Another day you found a chicken. It's still like this today when we discover new plants and animals. The only new plants and animals that evos create are artificially selected or GM ones requiring intelligence.

Claiming to follow God's thinking seems pretty hubristic to me.

 

[Baroodi]

(O mankind a parable was set forth! Listen to it. Those who you worship but not God, can not create a fly even if they sit for it together. And if the fly took something from them, they would not retrieve it. How weak they are!! and what an easy job they were asked to do!!
Surat Elhujj (22_73) Noble Quran

 

[columbus]

If you follow God's thinking,

How can anyone do that when the only way He expresses Himself is indistinguishable from a human claiming to speak for Him?

In ways that are indistinguishable from fiction or delusions.

I cannot follow God's thinking, since I don't know what it is and the people who claim to speak for Him aren't credible. They are most believable when they claim that God is incomprehensible and ineffable and such.
Tom

 

[james bond]

Claiming to follow God's thinking seems pretty hubristic to me.

Nah, we know a lot about God and what he's like. It's not supernatural though. He knows a lot about us, too.

English Standard Version

 

[Ricktheheretic]

If life wasn't a product done by a creator, then what prevents us from creating it
the same way as it has been done by the unconscious nature.

This challenge was offered by God thousands years ago, as to create living creatures, can we?

Democritus and Epicurus, two ancient Greek philosophers, believed the physical universe to be composed small units called "atoms" of varying kinds which are conscious and can come together and separate willingly. The reasoning is that big things can be broken down into smaller things and there must the be smallest particles that make up everything. Since man is part of the universe the universe must be like man. Thus the matter of the universe must be sentient or conscious. According to Will Durrant's "The Story of Philosophy" Epicurus came up with a pre-Darwinian account of evolution, several things came and were destroyed until the "atoms" found their perfect formations, including the animals on earth made of flesh "atoms." The point is, what if life always existed? Does it need an origin? Who made "god?" Maybe life is something that always existed.

 

[FearGod]

Democritus and Epicurus, two ancient Greek philosophers, believed the physical universe to be composed small units called "atoms" of varying kinds which are conscious and can come together and separate willingly. The reasoning is that big things can be broken down into smaller things and there must the be smallest particles that make up everything. Since man is part of the universe the universe must be like man. Thus the matter of the universe must be sentient or conscious. According to Will Durrant's "The Story of Philosophy" Epicurus came up with a pre-Darwinian account of evolution, several things came and were destroyed until the "atoms" found their perfect formations, including the animals on earth made of flesh "atoms." The point is, what if life always existed? Does it need an origin? Who made "god?" Maybe life is something that always existed.

Life can't be always existing since we know that life has a beginning and will have an end, the same thing
can be said about the universe which has a beginning, so rationally saying the thing that was always existing
should be beyond our time and space.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

If life wasn't a product done by a creator, then what prevents us from creating it the same way as it has been done by the unconscious nature.

If water wasn't a product done by a creator, then what prevents us from creating it the same way as it has been done by the unconscious nature.

A: Because we didn't know how yet: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071031125457.htm

I've been gone for about a year and FearGod is still on the anti-evolution kick and using the same old tactics of asking pointless questions that fail to prove the point.

 

[FearGod]

If water wasn't a product done by a creator, then what prevents us from creating it the same way as it has been done by the unconscious nature.

A: Because we didn't know how yet: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071031125457.htm

God didn't challenge us on creating water, if he did then I may take your point seriously.
for example God said we made the existence of life due to water, if we can find out that life
can exist without the need of water then it means God was a myth.

The prophet before his death asked people to listen to his final sermon and he insisted in saying,
be aware, this is a very serious and you'll come to existence after this life, don't mislead yourselves
and think wisely.

To me this life is temporarily, our day will come to an end, I tried a lot to find a thing that can prove that God was a myth,
but I didn't find even a one, we may find many beliefs and many Gods and many thoughts but that doesn't mean
that God doesn't exist but it means people invented many religions.

I've been gone for about a year and FearGod is still on the anti-evolution kick and using the same old tactics of asking pointless questions that fail to prove the point.

I was never against evolution, I'm with the planned evolution, designed and planned by the creator
and not just happening due to randomness and chances.

 

[eldios]

If life wasn't a product done by a creator, then what prevents us from creating it
the same way as it has been done by the unconscious nature.

This challenge was offered by God thousands years ago, as to create living creatures, can we?

That depends on how you think God created the images we see. Are they real or not?

 

[Kirran]

I was never against evolution, I'm with the planned evolution, designed and planned by the creator
and not just happening due to randomness and chances.

Nobody says evolution happens due to randomness and chance. If that is your understanding, you have yet to grasp how the process works.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

If life wasn't a product done by a creator, then what prevents us from creating it
the same way as it has been done by the unconscious nature.

This challenge was offered by God thousands years ago, as to create living creatures, can we?

What stops you from making a cheeseburger from just the raw materials of carbon, sodium, nitrogen, etc.? Well? You've seen cheeseburgers, right? You know what they are made of, correct? So... go ahead. I'll give you canisters of trillions of atoms of each of the elements that compose the matter of a cheeseburger and then you "construct" one. Can you do this?