Problems With Religion

[Booko]

Nice colours! Do they mean anything? 'cos the words don't mean much!

Yes, I thought it was a pretty good illustration of font-hyperbole and how it's an impediment to communication.

It reminds me of another self-published book I once read, which did contain some nuggets of useful information on the link between emotions and health.

Unfortunately, it was also written in a similarly pompous and self-important style, full of !!!!! and ALL CAPS and in purple text.

That's the sort of thing I would expect of a 13-year old newbie to forums and not to an adult who purports to be the font of all wisdom.

 

[sojourner]

Yes, I agree with your statements. ALL religions fall short of the ONE Spiritual Truth of God. The very Experience and Knowledge of God. This is why they cannot reveal God. This is why they are of no use. They are actually worse than that - for they actually fool people into believing that they will be Saved!

Peace & Love

I can't speak for any religion other than Xy. I can tell you that if you believe that about Xy, you're missing one of the most foundational theological constructs of Xy. The whole basis of Xy is that God became one of us to reconcile us to God. If that's not "experience and knowledge of God," if that's not revelation writ large, I don't know what is! For it is that very revelation that has reconciled us to God and saves us.

 

[A. Ben-Shema]

I can't speak for any religion other than Xy. I can tell you that if you believe that about Xy, you're missing one of the most foundational theological constructs of Xy. The whole basis of Xy is that God became one of us to reconcile us to God. If that's not "experience and knowledge of God," if that's not revelation writ large, I don't know what is! For it is that very revelation that has reconciled us to God and saves us.

Yes, Jesus came to Earth 2,000 years ago to reveal the very Knowledge of God (Gnosis) to those who went to Him with sincerity and humbleness. But the Christian religion cannot now do what Jesus did, they can only imitate and talk about various things that they 'believe'. They rely on 'emotional' (i.e. mental / psychological) experiences, rather than on the genuine Spiritual experience, which can only be revealed by a living Master. I am talking about the actual experience of LIGHT (the 'Beatific Vision' - which Moses described as like an everlasting 'burning bush' - the Vision of God!). The OT is full of descriptions of this Visionary experience which was seen by many people. All the worlds genuine Spiritual scriptures are full of descriptions of this same Divine experience. This is what I am talking about when I say that religion cannot reveal this - only a living Master. This is the actual experience which Saves us - not merely beliefs in such.

Peace & Love

 

[sojourner]

Yes, Jesus came to Earth 2,000 years ago to reveal the very Knowledge of God (Gnosis) to those who went to Him with sincerity and humbleness. But the Christian religion cannot now do what Jesus did, they can only imitate and talk about various things that they 'believe'. They rely on 'emotional' (i.e. mental / psychological) experiences, rather than on the genuine Spiritual experience, which can only be revealed by a living Master. I am talking about the actual experience of LIGHT (the 'Beatific Vision' - which Moses described as like an everlasting 'burning bush' - the Vision of God!). The OT is full of descriptions of this Visionary experience which was seen by many people. All the worlds genuine Spiritual scriptures are full of descriptions of this same Divine experience. This is what I am talking about when I say that religion cannot reveal this - only a living Master. This is the actual experience which Saves us - not merely beliefs in such.

Peace & Love

Have you ever stopped to think that the Church just might be a "living master?" We are the Body of Christ on earth, after all. I think you've been mislead, because you are grossly underestimating the depth of awareness of the Body of Christ. Jesus came to do more than teach and impart knowledge. Jesus embodied the very reconciliation of humanity/Divinity. Now, to know ourselves is to know God -- not in an intellectual (or even emotional sense) -- but in our own knowledge of being -- of who we are.

Oh, yes. The Church certainly does do what Christ did, for we are one with Christ.

BTW...if one needs a "master" in order to "see the light"...who was Moses' master? (I do hope you're not going to resort to Jethro...I'll be so disappointed.)

 

[doppelganger]

BTW...if one needs a "master" in order to "see the light"...who was Moses' master? (I do hope you're not going to resort to Jethro...I'll be so disappointed.)

I learned a great deal from Jethro.

Jethro Tull that is . . .

And the silver splinters fly in the corner of your eye ---
shining in the setting sun.
Well, do you ever get the feeling that the story's
too damn real and in the present tense?
Or that everybody's on the stage, and it seems like
you're the only person sitting in the audience?

- "Skating Away on the Thin Ice of the New Day"

 

[UnTheist]

Nothing is wrong with Religion. It's Humans you should worry about

 

[sojourner]

I learned a great deal from Jethro.

Jethro Tull that is . . .

And the silver splinters fly in the corner of your eye ---
shining in the setting sun.
Well, do you ever get the feeling that the story's
too damn real and in the present tense?
Or that everybody's on the stage, and it seems like
you're the only person sitting in the audience?

- "Skating Away on the Thin Ice of the New Day"

I learned a lot from Jethro.

Jethro Bodine, that is . . .

I'm gonna be an international playboy, and have a bachelor-pad.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

They rely on 'emotional' (i.e. mental / psychological) experiences, rather than on the genuine Spiritual experience, which can only be revealed by a living Master.

We are all living masters, though, aren't we? Our bodies, emotions, spirits are all one in the same. What seperates us is exclusivity; purporting secret, hidden knowledge or wisdom creates a barrier--a wall--that removes us from the Divine. The sage does not spend her time alone on a mountain top forever.

Spiritual truth is in all of us. There may be different flavors, but we are composed of the Truth. Reality is composed of It!

Experience is the living master. We all experience. It's what we were born to do!

Interesting thread, my friend!

 

[doppelganger]

Aren't we all living masters, though, aren't we? Our bodies, emotions, spirits are all one in the same. What seperates us is exclusivity; purporting secret, hidden knowledge or wisdom creates a barrier--a wall--that removes us from the Divine. The sage does not spend her time alone on a mountain top forever.

But then how would the Spirit argue with itself?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

But then how would the Spirit argue with itself?

With a mirror.

 

[doppelganger]

With a mirror.

The student has become the master . . .

 

[Guitar's Cry]

The student has become the master . . .

Don't I need to bring a Padawan into knighthood first?

 

[doppelganger]

Don't I need to bring a Padawan into knighthood first?

I thought you had one . . .

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I thought you had one . . .

Just myself.

And anyone who'll listen...

 

[doppelganger]

Just myself.

And anyone who'll listen...

That's enough to qualify.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

That's enough to qualify.

:guitar1:

Thus, are the living masters the products of their own reflection.

From the movie Circle of Iron: "The seekers fight their way here year after year. Willing, eager to pay the terrible price to see what is in that book. And when they fling it open in blazing expectation of finding all the answers to all of life’s questions. And what do they find? Themselves! There is no book, no enlightenment outside yourself. The seekers who arrived before are mostly at the temple. But some have gone back into the world. And in all manner of disguises. They provide the trials such as you have experienced. Some become teachers."

 

[A. Ben-Shema]

Oh, yes. The Church certainly does do what Christ did, for we are one with Christ.

Mere empty words. You may know them by their FRUITS!

BTW...if one needs a "master" in order to "see the light"...who was Moses' master? (I do hope you're not going to resort to Jethro...I'll be so disappointed.)

Maybe an Egyptian Mystic!?

Peace & Love

 

[A. Ben-Shema]

We are all living masters, though, aren't we?

If we follow our lower, 'unenlightened' mind / intellect / ego / persona, then we are slaves - not Masters.

Our bodies, emotions, spirits are all one in the same.

No. Our bodies are material and have a beginning and an end. Our emotions are a product of our lower mind, which interprets 'material' stimuli. Only the Spirit is eternal, that part of us from God, which gives us life.

What seperates us is exclusivity; purporting secret, hidden knowledge or wisdom creates a barrier--a wall--that removes us from the Divine. The sage does not spend her time alone on a mountain top forever.

The barrier / wall / curtain which separates us from God, and from each other, and which must be torn down, is the ego / persona / mind. That which allows us to do this is a great Sacred Mystery, revealed only by a genuine Spiritual Master. It requires humiliation to admit that we need such help, and to seek for such.

Spiritual truth is in all of us. There may be different flavors, but we are composed of the Truth. Reality is composed of It!

Yes indeed. The Master does not give us anything we do not already possess, he merely reveals it.

Experience is the living master. We all experience. It's what we were born to do!

Our experiences in this world will eventually lead us all to the Master. But some have more to overcome than others. Only when we are fully ready to receive Spiritual Initiation (the 'Baptism of Fire' = 'Light' of God) will the Master make Himself known.

Peace & Love

 

[Booko]

The Master does not give us anything we do not already possess, he merely reveals it.

Yes, we do already posess it, and we need no master to reveal anything. Just look inside.

13. O SON OF SPIRIT!
I created thee rich, why dost thou bring thyself down to poverty? Noble I made thee, wherewith dost thou abase thyself? Out of the essence of knowledge I gave thee being, why seekest thou enlightenment from anyone beside Me? Out of the clay of love I molded thee, how dost thou busy thyself with another? Turn thy sight unto thyself, that thou mayest find Me standing within thee, mighty, powerful and self-subsisting.

 

[A. Ben-Shema]

Yes, we do already posess it, and we need no master to reveal anything. Just look inside.

And what, exactly, do YOU see when YOU look inside?

Peace & Love