Prisoner rehabilitation?!

[Valjean]

I never expected to see anything like this, even from California:

‘Ending San Quentin’: plan would turn prison into ‘Norwegian style’ rehab center​

‘Ending San Quentin’: plan would turn prison into ‘Norwegian style’ rehab center

Gavin Newsom wants to overhaul California’s oldest prison into a facility focused on training programs and education

www.theguardian.com

The California governor, Gavin Newsom, has announced a plan to transform the state’s oldest prison into a center for rehabilitation, education and training, modeled after Norwegian incarceration systems, which are much less restrictive than US facilities.

The US penal system has been set up more to to warehouse and punish than to fix the problems that led to incarceration. Prisoners are released angry, bitter, and with the same lack of social or vocational skills that led to their criminal lifestyle in the first place.

With all the "tough on crime" outcry I've been seeing/hearing/reading on the news lately, this story really caught my eye. I expect howls of protest from the right as soon as the story gets out in the US.

Thoughts? Comments? Howls of protest?

 

[Revoltingest]

 

[Twilight Hue]

I never expected to see anything like this, even from California:

‘Ending San Quentin’: plan would turn prison into ‘Norwegian style’ rehab center​

‘Ending San Quentin’: plan would turn prison into ‘Norwegian style’ rehab center

Gavin Newsom wants to overhaul California’s oldest prison into a facility focused on training programs and education

www.theguardian.com

The US penal system has been set up more to to warehouse and punish than to fix the problems that led to incarceration. Prisoners are released angry, bitter, and with the same lack of social or vocational skills that led to their criminal lifestyle in the first place.

With all the "tough on crime" outcry I've been seeing/hearing/reading on the news lately, this story really caught my eye. I expect howls of protest from the right as soon as the story gets out in the US.

Thoughts? Comments? Howls of protest?

The slave trade is far too lucrative for that to ever happen.

 

[kadzbiz]

I think, maybe, that the difference in culture may impact the success of it. I’d hope it wouldn’t, but my gut tells me it just won’t work, which would be a shame because I have no other valid suggestion.

 

[Heyo]

I never expected to see anything like this, even from California:

‘Ending San Quentin’: plan would turn prison into ‘Norwegian style’ rehab center​

‘Ending San Quentin’: plan would turn prison into ‘Norwegian style’ rehab center

Gavin Newsom wants to overhaul California’s oldest prison into a facility focused on training programs and education

www.theguardian.com

The US penal system has been set up more to to warehouse and punish than to fix the problems that led to incarceration. Prisoners are released angry, bitter, and with the same lack of social or vocational skills that led to their criminal lifestyle in the first place.

With all the "tough on crime" outcry I've been seeing/hearing/reading on the news lately, this story really caught my eye. I expect howls of protest from the right as soon as the story gets out in the US.

Thoughts? Comments? Howls of protest?

:informative:

 

[Heyo]

I think, maybe, that the difference in culture may impact the success of it. I’d hope it wouldn’t, but my gut tells me it just won’t work, which would be a shame because I have no other valid suggestion.

US exceptionalism. Yes, the US population is, measured by inmates per capita, the most criminal in the world but is that reason enough to believe that US inmates won't benefit from tried forms of rehabilitation?
I think most inmates would welcome the experiment. The other question is if the rest of the population would accept it. All the rehabilitation isn't worth much if the society which drove them to criminality doesn't change.

 

[kadzbiz]

US exceptionalism. Yes, the US population is, measured by inmates per capita, the most criminal in the world but is that reason enough to believe that US inmates won't benefit from tried forms of rehabilitation?
I think most inmates would welcome the experiment. The other question is if the rest of the population would accept it. All the rehabilitation isn't worth much if the society which drove them to criminality doesn't change.

I’m sure inmates would welcome it.

 

[Mock Turtle]

There was a TV programme on UK TV a week or so back showing one of the more extreme versions of the Norway model. I doubt they would do this if it wasn't effective but I doubt much of the British public would like to see this happening in the UK, given we still tend to have a more right-wing nature as I see it. We are still avidly against voting for prisoners from what I recall.

 

[Revoltingest]

The slave trade is far too lucrative for that to ever happen.

What country do you live in?

 

[Valjean]

I think, maybe, that the difference in culture may impact the success of it. I’d hope it wouldn’t, but my gut tells me it just won’t work, which would be a shame because I have no other valid suggestion.

This is a good point, and it's not just national culture that varies. Even within the prison population there's considerable variation in cultural, social, educational, psychological background.
The Scandinavian prisons the proposed program is patterned after are not all the same. Prisoners are sorted into different programs in different prisons, with different levels of restriction and control. This would be the only practical approach, and I assume unsuitable inmates would be excluded from the San Quentin experiment.

This sorting is done in the US, as well. It's nothing new.

 

[Twilight Hue]

What country do you live in?

A slavery country.

 

[Revoltingest]

A slavery country.

France?
I hear people there are being forced to work past 50 years of age to collect a government pension.

 

[Valjean]

France?
I hear people there are being forced to work past 50 years of age to collect a government pension.

Insupportable!

 

[Twilight Hue]

France?
I hear people there are being forced to work past 50 years of age to collect a government pension.

Slavery is still legal. Maybe read up on the 13th amendment.

Section 1​

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2​

Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Convicts Are Returning To Farming—Anti-Immigrant Policies Are The Reason - UMBC: University Of Maryland, Baltimore County

Under lucrative arrangements, states are increasingly leasing prisoners to private corporations to harvest food for American consumers.

umbc.edu

Yes. The United States is still a slaver country.

 

[Revoltingest]

Slavery is still legal. Maybe read up on the 13th amendment.

Section 1​

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2​

Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Convicts Are Returning To Farming—Anti-Immigrant Policies Are The Reason - UMBC: University Of Maryland, Baltimore County

Under lucrative arrangements, states are increasingly leasing prisoners to private corporations to harvest food for American consumers.

umbc.edu

Yes. The United States is still a slaver country.

Oh, I see what you're doing...you're conflating the common
understanding of slavery with punishment for a crime that
involves work. Twisted.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Oh, I see what you're doing...you're conflating the common
understanding of slavery with punishment for a crime that
involves work. Twisted.

Obviously you don't know what the 13th amendment is saying or means.

 

[Revoltingest]

Obviously you don't know what the 13th amendment is saying or means.

Or perhaps I do, & you don't.
I've been very familiar with it since before
you were even a twinkle in yer daddy's eye.
(Cuz of the draft.)