Pretribulation rapture

[Trailblazer]

Nice to hear your thoughts.
Most Christians believe in the world ending.
I completely agree with your end times philosophy.
It is incredibly rare to hear that, though, as you probably know.
How did you come to that belief?

That is a Baha'i belief, as I just explained briefly to Brian2. Take a look at the video.
#19 Trailblazer

The end of the age was supposed to come when Christ returned and Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ so the coming of Baha'u'lalh marked the end of the previous age and the beginning of the new age.

Certain Bible verses have different translations so the same Bible verse was translated to say "end of the world" or "end of the age" depending upon the translation. Perhaps that is one reason why some Christians believe it will be the end of the world.

However, some Christians understood that it was the coming of a new age, which is what Baha'is believe.

The end of the age (“end of the world” in the KJV) refers to the end of this present era and the commencement of the next dispensation. It is the period that precedes the second coming of the Son of Man as the Righteous Judge. The end of the age includes the rapture, the tribulation, the second coming, and the judgment of the nations, all of which help usher in the age to come.

To continue: What does the Bible mean when it refers to the end of the age? | GotQuestions.org

Bahai's believe that Baha'u'llah was the return of the Son of Man who was the Righteous Judge, but we do not believe in the rapture or the tribulation. We do believe there will be tribulations but not the kind Christians believe in. We believe that much of the tribulations we are witnessing at the present time are the result of most people rejecting Baha'u'llah, begining with the kings and rulers of His Day, and that if they had not rejected Him the Most Great Peace would have been established. Instead, humanity has had to settle for the Lesser Peace, but eventually the Most Great Peace will be established.

 

[AlexanderG]

True or false?

Frankly, if someone just vacuumed up all the most conservative Evangelicals and moved them to another dimension, that would be great.

The rest of us could finally get to work actually fixing the problems we face, without a vocal minority blocking everything due to their eager anticipation of the world ending, who apparently couldn't care less about "worldly matters" and only seem interested in the wellbeing of humans before we're born and after we die. Climate change, human rights, free and open scientific inquiry, and human wellbeing and flourishing would finally be issues we could directly pursue without the ball-and-chain. If that's "hell on earth" then I'll take it.

 

[AlexanderG]

Look around, watch the TV news, we are already IN the end times, have been for some time.
The end times is the end of an age and the beginning of a new age, not the end of the world.
I don't look forward to the end of the world but I do look forward to the beginning of a new world order.

The only factor in your subjective experience of things getting worse is that the media covers disasters and crimes at a higher rate than in the past, because they have determined that this is profitable for them. If you look at the actual data, you'll notice that crime, poverty, war, and all other negative factors have been steadily in decline for a long time, while things like literacy, human rights, happiness, and peace are all increasing. There are bumps and setbacks here and there, but the general trend is clear.

Steven Pinker's book, "The Better Angels of our Nature," would be a good place to start looking at this data.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Hey KenS, hope you’re well, my friend!
I just had to comment on something you posted:

…thus, there are still Christians present even if a first boat-load leaves.

I’m sorry, but that sounds so funny! A first “boat-load”, huh?

(Can I get a ticket?)

Take care, cousin!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Frankly, if someone just vacuumed up all the most conservative Evangelicals and moved them to another dimension, that would be great.

The rest of us could finally get to work actually fixing the problems we face, without a vocal minority blocking everything due to their eager anticipation of the world ending, who apparently couldn't care less about "worldly matters" and only seem interested in the wellbeing of humans before we're born and after we die. Climate change, human rights, free and open scientific inquiry, and human wellbeing and flourishing would finally be issues we could directly pursue without the ball-and-chain. If that's "hell on earth" then I'll take it.

Not gonna happen.
I know @Trailblazer , whom I admire, will disagree with me on this.

People everywhere , of all classes, who have the ability to effect change, are just too selfish to impact their lives with less materially.

That’s what it would take.

 

[74x12]

True or false?

False. The tribulation is the tribulation of the church. They that endure to the end will be saved.

 

[Truthseeker]

We were not going through the end times of the previous era when Baha'u'llah began His era. The previous era was brought to a close with Muhammad who was the Seal of the Prophets and closed off the Prophetic Age. The the new era began when the Bab appeared in 1844. We are now living in the Age of Fulfillment, named as such because all the Bible prophecies will be fulfilled during this age.

That video could be good for a devotional or Feast! Good message, good music.

 

[Trailblazer]

Not gonna happen.
I know @Trailblazer , whom I admire, will disagree with me on this.

People everywhere , of all classes, who have the ability to effect change, are just too selfish to impact their lives with less materially.

That’s what it would take.

I know it looks like that way now, but I see glimmers of hope as people are becoming less selfish, little by little.
I believe things will change eventually but it won't happen overnight as humanity certainly did not get the way they are now overnight.

Call me overly optimistic, but I believe that a new race of men will emerge in the future. Did not the Bible promise something like that that?

New Race of Men

 

[TransmutingSoul]

True or false?

False I am sorry to say.

It has all been offered on RF before, even in OP's lasting over 18000 replies.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

If you look at the actual data, you'll notice that crime, poverty, war, and all other negative factors have been steadily in decline for a long time, while things like literacy, human rights, happiness, and peace are all increasing. There are bumps and setbacks here and there, but the general trend is clear.

You raise a very good point, and I believe you because I can see things in the world slowing improving.

I said that this is the end of an age and the beginning of a new age, not the end of the world, and I said I look forward to the beginning of a new world order. I can already see that humanity is slowly changing for the better as I said to @Hockeycowboy.

Those of us who are Baha’is can see the old world order is dying and a new world order is rising in its stead, according to the promises of God. We believe that these changes were initiated by the Coming of Baha'u'llah and will continue into the future until the Kingdom of God is built on earth.

“This is the Day in which God’s most excellent favors have been poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care and loving-kindness….

Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 6-7

 

[Trailblazer]

That video could be good for a devotional or Feast! Good message, good music.

Or a Fireside... It is not the Baha'is who need to see it.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Once a student of my Master said to Him "I am willing to do anything for you, I am willing to die for you".

My Master deadly serious said "I don't want you to die for me, I want you to live for me"

Harder, probably

 

[paarsurrey]

With the advent of Second Coming/Imam Mahdi it has already started:

Holy War/ Rapture - the peaceful version- with reasons, arguments and peaceful dialogue

One will be taken aback to note that Armageddon or Rapture is nothing like as one would have imagined or known so far. It is not to be fought with any physical and destructive weaponry and or the lethal arsenal of the day. It is peaceful and in fact, I understand, it has already started and it is sown like a seed!

One aspect of it was a debate between the Pauline-Christianity (represented by Mr. Abdullah Atham) and the Second Coming 1835-1908 , that took place in Urdu language and was published then by the name “Jang-e-Muqaddas” in 1893 ( 22 May 1893 to 5 June 1893) in the then British India and has been recently translated and published in English by the name “The Holy War”:

The Holy War — A DEBATE BETWEEN ISLAM & CHRISTIANITY — Jang-e-Muqaddas (alislam.org)

Right?

Another aspect of the "Rapture" already started by the Second Coming/Imam Mahdi 1835-1908 is:
writing of the lecture "The Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam"
read in the World Religions Conference held in Lahore in the then British India, please,
Right?

Regards

 

[stvdv]

Harder, probably

The deeper meaning of "to live" indeed is "get Self Realized", which is the "hardest" of all
If they put a human under water then most discover they don't want to die (stop breathing)

 

[Redemptionsong]

I know it looks like that way now, but I see glimmers of hope as people are becoming less selfish, little by little.
I believe things will change eventually but it won't happen overnight as humanity certainly did not get the way they are now overnight.

Call me overly optimistic, but I believe that a new race of men will emerge in the future. Did not the Bible promise something like that that?

New Race of Men

If you're looking for a new race of men then look no further than the Taliban.

It would appear that women need not apply!

 

[Moonjuice]

What’s with these weird “end times” ideas that so many people desperately look forward to?

Is it that they cannot coexist in a world full of people who think and look different from them?
Is it because they are looking forward to being raptured, while all the rest of humanity suffers unspeakable tortures?
Is it because they look forward to “reigning” over all those “other people”?

It’s all nonsense, imo. (In case you couldn’t see that)

My great grandmother said to look around, you can see we are in the end times. She knew the "rapture" was going to happen in her lifetime. My grandmother also knew the rapture was going to happen in her lifetime...and you guessed it, my mother used to think the same thing. Heck, even Jesus thought the end was coming in his own lifetime. Of course none of them got to witness the rapture and neither will anyone reading this.

Why is it that people think the end is near? Because they were convinced on bad evidence. If they are convinced, though, its not surprising they try to look for "signs' that the world is coming to an end soon- confirmation bias is tough to avoid when you start off convinced. Another reason they hope the world ends could be that their life just sucks. If they have any pain, or suffering or unhappiness....they can't wait for that to end if they believe it all gets better after they die. Which is technically true, since everyone gets to experience the pain free reality of nonexistence.

 

[Moonjuice]

I don't look forward to the end of the world but I do look forward to the beginning of a new world order.

So did Hitler and so does the Taliban.

 

[Brian2]

We were not going through the end times of the previous era when Baha'u'llah began His era. The previous era was brought to a close with Muhammad who was the Seal of the Prophets and closed off the Prophetic Age. The the new era began when the Bab appeared in 1844. We are now living in the Age of Fulfillment, named as such because all the Bible prophecies will be fulfilled during this age.

Why do you say we are in the end times?

 

[viole]

True or false?

None of them.

ciao

- viole

 

[Trailblazer]

If you're looking for a new race of men then look no further than the Taliban.

It would appear that women need not apply!

No, that is the old race of men, the race from the previous age.
Those men are leftovers from a previous age, but eventually men like those will be no longer. A new race of men will emerge. We can already see the beginnings of that emergence in the backlash to the Taliban and its backward and cruel practices such as the inequitable treatment of women.

“With the establishment of the Most Great Peace and the spiritualization of the peoples of the world, man will become a noble being adorned with divine virtues and perfections. This is one of the fruits of the Revelation of Bahá’u’lláh, promised by Him. The nobility of man and his spiritual development will lead him in the future to such a position that no individual could enjoy eating his food or resting at home while knowing that there was one person somewhere in the world without food or shelter. It is Bahá’u’lláh’s mission to create such a new race of men.” (Adib Taherzadeh, The Revelation of Bahá’u’lláh v 3, p. 126)

New Race of Men