Prayer and High School Football in East Texas

[Kathryn]

Last night, my husband and I attended a high school football game in East Texas. Something interesting happened.

The announcer asked for everyone to stand for the singing of the two teams' school songs. Then he said, "Now we will pause for a prayer from one of our students."

A young, clear voice rang out across the field. The prayer was short, simple and sweet. The student asked for God's protection for both teams, safety for the opposing team as they drove home, and for grace and comfort for those who lost loved ones 8 years ago on September 11.

When the prayer ended, there was a growing murmur across the stands - a murmur that grew to a crescendo of "Amens!" and clapping.

This is actually the second home game this year that has included a prayer by a student. So far, no lawsuits or complaints have been made, as far as we know.

After the prayer, the bands played the Star Spangled Banner, as usual, and, as usual, the audience chimed in. I have noticed that each week, more and more people sing along with the band.

All I can say is this - those stands were filled with some pretty stout oilfield workers and their families. Having lived in the South and Southwest for most of my life, I can say with some certainty that the audiences at a high school football team pretty much represent the basic demographics of the area.

I think our government officials should get out of Washington once in awhile and go watch some high school football.

 

[blackout]

I really hope my kids never take any interest in about 80% of what goes on at (high) schools....
So far my son shows no interest in any sports other than gymnastics and golf.
thank gawd.
And I will NEVER encourage cheerleading. oh please no....
(re. my daughters)

Oh ack. Thinking about this stuff actually cuts my breathing short.

To each his/her own of course.

Govt. schools will encouage patriotism. sigh. What you gunna do?
The prayer is just .... i don't know.
Sometimes I think I must be living in wonderland.

 

[Kathryn]

Well, actually, my husband and I got in a little tiff about this whole prayer thing. See, I don't have a problem with it - as long as it's open to ANY student who wants to pray, or offer a moment of silence, or read something uplifting.

My only requirement would be that whatever the student (volunteer of course) wanted to say would need to be non political and non racist - something positive and rather generalized - whether it was a prayer or just a statement of support for the team and/or community.

I would ENCOURAGE diversity in this.

But of course, then we could end up with a Borat scenario!

As for high school football - I have five kids. My youngest is the only one who has ever participated in sports. My others were all more into the arts, music, debate stuff. So I truly haven't been involved in high school sports til the past four years.

I have to say, I've been very pleasantly surprised overall. The games and events seem to really draw the community together - people from all walks of life. The kids are kept busy (ie, somewhat out of trouble). They have to maintain good grades in order to play. The whole thing - all the sports, plus the band, the cheerleaders, the drill team, the twirlers and flaggers, etc - seems very wholesome to me. The parents and community supporting the kids is also a nice aspect of high school sports.

In spite of my artsy fartsy tendencies, I've become quite a football fan. I have to admit, it surprised me.

 

[Bloomdido]

I think our government officials should get out of Washington once in awhile and go watch some high school football.

61% of your officials still believe evolution is a half baked theory. No Charles Darwin film for you.

 

[freethinker44]

If you want to know why prayer in school is wrong. Put yourself into a nonchristians shoes. What if your kids came home from school and told you before they started class the teacher had everyone bow thier heads and praise allah. How outraged would you be? Being a part of the majority doesn't matter, we should all fight to protect each others rights to freedom and just our own, because sooner or later the only freedoms left to take away are going to be your own. And even though you think you are in the same demographic as all those other people, I am willing to gaurantee that, while you pray to the same god, you probably don't live by the same morals.

To the average american, when a fundamentalist preaches something, they might say god and jesus, but most americans live a completely different lifestyle and would be considered just as wrong as as any atheist. Has anyone ever seen the documentary "jesus camp"? How would you like these people telling you how to live your life? Because you know what, these are the people in washington lobbying for christians, where do you think you will stand after atheists and muslims get knocked out of their way?

 

[freethinker44]

61% of your officials still believe evolution is a half baked theory. No Charles Darwin film for you.

That is another thing, do you really want someone who knows nothing about science to tell you what science is? The same goes for literature and any other field of study.

 

[FFH]

Amen, great opening post Kathyrn.

 

[Father Heathen]

I don't like the idea of my tax money funding the proselytization of a religion I don't believe in or agree with.

Kathryn, how would you have reacted if the announcer had asked everyone to stand for a Muslim, Buddhist or Wiccan prayer? There would be (hypocritical) outrage, now wouldn't there?

 

[Apex]

Last night, my husband and I attended a high school football game in East Texas. Something interesting happened.

The announcer asked for everyone to stand for the singing of the two teams' school songs. Then he said, "Now we will pause for a prayer from one of our students."

A young, clear voice rang out across the field. The prayer was short, simple and sweet. The student asked for God's protection for both teams, safety for the opposing team as they drove home, and for grace and comfort for those who lost loved ones 8 years ago on September 11.

When the prayer ended, there was a growing murmur across the stands - a murmur that grew to a crescendo of "Amens!" and clapping.

This is actually the second home game this year that has included a prayer by a student. So far, no lawsuits or complaints have been made, as far as we know.

After the prayer, the bands played the Star Spangled Banner, as usual, and, as usual, the audience chimed in. I have noticed that each week, more and more people sing along with the band.

All I can say is this - those stands were filled with some pretty stout oilfield workers and their families. Having lived in the South and Southwest for most of my life, I can say with some certainty that the audiences at a high school football team pretty much represent the basic demographics of the area.

I think our government officials should get out of Washington once in awhile and go watch some high school football.

Kathryn, you know better than to express this non-PC conservative garbage on RF. It offends the sensitive ears, or eyes, of the other posters.

I agree with you it should really be no problem provided it occurs only at extra curricular activities and any student may volunteer, and only volunteer, and give any kind of message of any kind of faith persuasion provided it is not racist or hateful and fairly general.

If a Muslim, or Jewish, or Pagan, or whatever, student got up and gave a message according to their faith it is not really going to bug me. In fact I think it would be kind of cool if we started getting non-Christian themed messages before these kind of events.

 

[Father Heathen]

If a Muslim, or Jewish, or Pagan, or whatever, student got up and gave a message according to their faith it is not really going to bug me. In fact I think it would be kind of cool if we started getting non-Christian themed messages before these kind of events.

While it may not bother you, you know full well that it would upset most conservative Christians, who believe that having religion in school and in government is a good thing.... as long as it's their beliefs, of course. Remember this incident? http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/3399

 

[monta]

People praying doesn't offend me, I find it boring and pointless though, I have to sit through it when I am at a religious ceremony, and I do it respectfully, but I don't see why I should have to sit through it at any other time. I don't get why some people have to make a song and dance about public prayer, if you want to pray at a non religious event, why can't you just do it silently, or is god getting hard of hearing in his old age ?

 

[Sunstone]

So long as the prayer is voluntary, non-discriminatory, and not organized by the school officials, I have no problem with it.

 

[Apex]

While it may not bother you, you know full well that it would upset most conservative Christians, who believe that having religion in school and in government is a good thing.... as long as it's their beliefs, of course. Remember this incident? Apologetics Press - Hindu Prayer in Congress

I do not care when the fundi-atheists get up in arms over this stuff, why should I care if the fundi-christians throw a fit as well?

 

[shortfade2]

I really hope my kids never take any interest in about 80% of what goes on at (high) schools....
So far my son shows no interest in any sports other than gymnastics and golf.
thank gawd.
And I will NEVER encourage cheerleading. oh please no....
(re. my daughters)

Oh ack. Thinking about this stuff actually cuts my breathing short.

To each his/her own of course.

Govt. schools will encouage patriotism. sigh. What you gunna do?
The prayer is just .... i don't know.
Sometimes I think I must be living in wonderland.

HAHAHA!!! thats great! I play basketball, and untill this upcoming season , I have been the lightest kid on the floor, and would get knocked around constantly. Now I gained about 25 pounds and am hoping to gain another 5 or 10 by tryouts. My mom sounds a lot like you.

its not cheerleading in and of itself, its just that most head cheerleaders are wh*rs it just works out like that for some weird reason.

 

[Nepenthe]

I'd be surprised to see other faiths prayers represented in such situations, particularly in Texas. The state hasn't been exactly accomodating to other faiths when it came to the teaching the Bible in schools issue either.

When the Supreme Court ruled 6-3 against Texas in student led prayer in 2000 (Santa Fe Independent School District v. Jane Doe), they rejected the argument that it was student led or private speech, mainly because the school officials had final authority on what prayer could actually be said. Minority prayers, non-denominational or even secular speeches before the game would never be deemed appropriate by the school.

If vague prayers to a nondescript deity are what makes folks evening at a football game that much more enjoyable then have at it. I just think it'd be better that they pray for the end of Texas' abyssmal high school dropout rate- 1 student every 4 minutes drops out of high school there. Or maybe a prayer asking why a a school that was up in arms over Obama's speech is bussing the kids to a Cowboys stadium event where both George W. and his wife will be speaking. Maybe a prayer to educate folks like "The Free Market Foundation" that attempting to shoehorn creationism into schools damages education and sets students back.

Nah, maybe I'm wrong and the general "Yay God!" kind of prayers are probably more fitting here. It neither picks my pocket or breaks my leg.


http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/politics/Kids-Didnt-Hear-Obama-But-Will-Be-Bussed-for-Bush-57827022.html

 

[freethinker44]

I agree with you it should really be no problem provided it occurs only at extra curricular activities and any student may volunteer, and only volunteer, and give any kind of message of any kind of faith persuasion provided it is not racist or hateful and fairly general.

High school football isn't extra curricular, it is a school sponsored function. And any school function is a government function.

 

[freethinker44]

Is it just me, or does texas seem like it is turning into the religious fundamentalist hub in the united states. It seems like everytime I read the news texas has just passed some unconstitutional law in favor of fundamentalist christian beliefs.

 

[T-Dawg]

Is it just me, or does texas seem like it is turning into the religious fundamentalist hub in the united states. It seems like everytime I read the news texas has just passed some unconstitutional law in favor of fundamentalist christian beliefs.

Well, think about that for a moment - the fundamentalists have to all get together somewhere, or else they'll be crushed by the strong secularist majority. Southern states tend to be more rural, and therefore the government has less effect on them, allowing religious bigotry to thrive. Texas is also on the border of Mexico, and most fundies are also conservatives, which are against illegal immigration (particularly from Mexico). If the fundamentalists can get a foothold in Texas, they'll kill two birds in one stone - hinder the immigrants and establish a strong foothold.

And they said playing strategic video games was bad for my mind .

 

[blackout]

Should I be nervous at the idea of moving to Austin?

 

[McBell]

Should I be nervous at the idea of moving to Austin?

be afraid.
Be VERY afraid.

The stories I hear from Texas are really really scary.

Unless you are bible thumping Christian....