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Pledge of Allegence
- Thread starter melissa
- Start date
Colin_Admin
Member
I agree with you Melissa, and it isnt hurting anyone with it in there. And I would like to say hello cause I have family in chicago and have been going there annually for about 20 years now. What part of chicago are in?
THEDARKONE4
Member
Although the major religions have some god(s), under God refers specifically to the monotheistic God represented in Judaism/Christianity/Islam/etc.melissa said:
I am in favor of keeping under God in the pledge. However, I don't really care if it gets taken out. It won't hurt me a bit. Also, if someone doesn't like that it is in there, they don't have to say the pledge, or they can just not say under God.
This issue is like the Ten Commandments issue here in Alabama. It's stupid and pointless.
THEDARKONE4
Member
Not about the Ten Commandments, about the issue of the Ten Commandments statue in the rotunda of the Supreme Court building here in Montgomery.
Master Vigil
Well-Known Member
Yeah, alot of people argue that if they don't say it then they will be ridiculed by their classmates. Thats bull****, no one said the pledge in my school. We sorta just standed there. And often didnt stand at all. So I find that a very weak argument.
I don't care either way, god is just a word to me. Whatever you want to call it, doesn't matter. Its just a word.
I don't care either way, god is just a word to me. Whatever you want to call it, doesn't matter. Its just a word.
Master Vigil
Well-Known Member
About the 10 commandments... I am not christian, but what is so bad about the commandments. They seem to be of wonderful nature to me. I don't feel its wrong to have something saying "thou shall not steal, thou shall not kill... etc..." I'm sure people aren't thrilled about the "thou shall not put other gods before me" one. But again, they are just words, you can take the meaning how ever you want to take it.
Runt
Well-Known Member
I have to ask though... what about atheists? They DON'T believe in a God... why should they have to pledge their allegiance to "one nation under God". Why can't they just pledge their allegiance to "one nation"?
I personally don't think there is any purpose to the "under God" portion of the pledge. Taking it out doesn't change the meaning of the pledge at all, but leaving it in gives a particular religious flavor to our national government that violates "seperation of church and state".
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
It wasn't orginally written with "under God" in it. In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer. So, restore it back to it's original form the way it was meant to be. For ALL people as One Nation. Restoring the Pledge to its original form is not the same as changing God to "no God" it is just being silent on the issue.
A little Pledge history:
Francis Bellamy (1855-1931) wrote the original Pledge in August 1892. The Pledge was published in the September 8th issue of "The Youth's Companion", the leading family magazine and the Reader's Digest of its day. In 1892 Francis Bellamy was chairman of a committee of state superintendents of education in the National Education Association. As its chairman, he prepared the program for the public schools' quadricentennial celebration for Columbus Day in 1892. He structured this public school program around a flag raising ceremony and a flag salute - his "Pledge of Allegiance".
The original Pledge read as follows: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all".
He considered placing the word, "equality", in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans.
* ['to' added in October, 1892.]
In 1923 and 1924 the National Flag Conference, under the leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words "my flag", to "the Flag of the United States of America". Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored.
In 1954, Congress, after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus (and in response to McCarthyism), added the words, "under God" to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer. Bellamy's granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change. He had been pressured into leaving his church in 1891 because of his socialist sermons. In his retirement in Florida, he stopped attending church because he disliked the racial bigotry he found there.
What follows is Bellamy's own account of some of the thoughts that went through his mind in August, 1892, as he picked the words of his Pledge:
"It began as an intensive communing with salient points of our national history, from the Declaration of Independence onwards; with the makings of the Constitution...with the meaning of the Civil War; with the aspiration of the people...
The true reason for allegiance to the Flag is the "republic for which it stands". ...And what does that vast thing, the Republic mean? It is the concise political word for the Nation - the One Nation which the Civil War was fought to prove. To make that One Nation idea clear, we must specify that it is indivisible, as Webster and Lincoln used to repeat in their great speeches. And its future?
Just here arose the temptation of the historic slogan of the French Revolution which meant so much to Jefferson and his friends, "Liberty, equality, fraternity". No, that would be too fanciful, too many thousands of years off in realization. But we as a nation do stand square on the doctrine of liberty and justice for all."
A little Pledge history:
Francis Bellamy (1855-1931) wrote the original Pledge in August 1892. The Pledge was published in the September 8th issue of "The Youth's Companion", the leading family magazine and the Reader's Digest of its day. In 1892 Francis Bellamy was chairman of a committee of state superintendents of education in the National Education Association. As its chairman, he prepared the program for the public schools' quadricentennial celebration for Columbus Day in 1892. He structured this public school program around a flag raising ceremony and a flag salute - his "Pledge of Allegiance".
The original Pledge read as follows: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all".
He considered placing the word, "equality", in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans.
* ['to' added in October, 1892.]
In 1923 and 1924 the National Flag Conference, under the leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words "my flag", to "the Flag of the United States of America". Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored.
In 1954, Congress, after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus (and in response to McCarthyism), added the words, "under God" to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer. Bellamy's granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change. He had been pressured into leaving his church in 1891 because of his socialist sermons. In his retirement in Florida, he stopped attending church because he disliked the racial bigotry he found there.
What follows is Bellamy's own account of some of the thoughts that went through his mind in August, 1892, as he picked the words of his Pledge:
"It began as an intensive communing with salient points of our national history, from the Declaration of Independence onwards; with the makings of the Constitution...with the meaning of the Civil War; with the aspiration of the people...
The true reason for allegiance to the Flag is the "republic for which it stands". ...And what does that vast thing, the Republic mean? It is the concise political word for the Nation - the One Nation which the Civil War was fought to prove. To make that One Nation idea clear, we must specify that it is indivisible, as Webster and Lincoln used to repeat in their great speeches. And its future?
Just here arose the temptation of the historic slogan of the French Revolution which meant so much to Jefferson and his friends, "Liberty, equality, fraternity". No, that would be too fanciful, too many thousands of years off in realization. But we as a nation do stand square on the doctrine of liberty and justice for all."
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
melissa said:
It was written by whom?
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
melissa said:
No one is suggesting replacing it, just take out the "under God" part and restore it to the original pledge.
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
melissa said:sorry maize that was not a well thought out response. but i edited it.
NP lol. But you might want to read what I posted above about the history of the pledge. :goodjob:
THEDARKONE4
Member
Look, no one is putting a gun angainst your head and making you say it. You act like your being forced against your will to say it.Runt said:
Don't get me started on separation of church and state. Especially since it's only been around, in its modern form, since 1962-1963.
Runt
Well-Known Member
Yeah, well, civil rights in their modern form have only been around since about then too... do you deny that they are a "good idea"? Just because an idea is new does not mean that it has no validity!
I am not forced to say it, but my teachers force me to stand up and take off my hat for it. That act of rising and removing my hat for the pledge are basically gestures of respect toward the pledge of allegience and all the ideas contained within it, including "one nation under god"... a gesture of respect JUST LIKE THE ACT OF SAYING THE PLEDGE!
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
personally I like the pledge as it was origionally written... without 'under god'...
it was only added to make us feel we were better then the 'godless commies'.
silly really.
its been changed THREE times already....
the origional c. 1892
I pledge allegiance to my Flag,
and (to*) the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.
then changed on June 14, 1923 to
I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.
then changed again in 1924 to
I pledge allegiance to the Flag
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.
Then one more time in 1954
I pledge allegiance to the Flag
of the United States of America
and to the Republic for which it stands,
one nation under God, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all.
I say lets go back to our roots and go back to the origional pledge.
wa:-do
Ps. info snitched from:
http://www.flagday.org/Pages/StoryofPledge.html
wa:-do
it was only added to make us feel we were better then the 'godless commies'.
silly really.
its been changed THREE times already....
the origional c. 1892
I pledge allegiance to my Flag,
and (to*) the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.
then changed on June 14, 1923 to
I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.
then changed again in 1924 to
I pledge allegiance to the Flag
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.
Then one more time in 1954
I pledge allegiance to the Flag
of the United States of America
and to the Republic for which it stands,
one nation under God, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all.
I say lets go back to our roots and go back to the origional pledge.
wa:-do
Ps. info snitched from:
http://www.flagday.org/Pages/StoryofPledge.html
wa:-do
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
Again, if you look at history, 'in god we trust' was a recent addition to american money.
HIstorically we maintained a better seperation.
Again fearing 'godless commies' we changed our currency like we did the pledge.
1957 Paper currency was first issued with "In God We Trust" as required by Congress in 1955. The inscription appears on all currency Series 1963 and beyond
http://www.ronscurrency.com/rhist.htm
or if you prefer you can check out what the Bureau of Engraving and Printing (the people who make our money) have to say aobut it.
http://www.moneyfactory.com/document.cfm/18/107
again, its a new thing, not a historically american thing.
Historically we kept god and state seperate.
wa:-do
HIstorically we maintained a better seperation.
Again fearing 'godless commies' we changed our currency like we did the pledge.
1957 Paper currency was first issued with "In God We Trust" as required by Congress in 1955. The inscription appears on all currency Series 1963 and beyond
http://www.ronscurrency.com/rhist.htm
or if you prefer you can check out what the Bureau of Engraving and Printing (the people who make our money) have to say aobut it.
http://www.moneyfactory.com/document.cfm/18/107
again, its a new thing, not a historically american thing.
Historically we kept god and state seperate.
wa:-do
The government and courts can and do handle more than one thing at a time. Eisenhower took the time to put it in, so Bush can take the time to take it out.melissa said:
I think the whole idea of the pledge has a fascist tinge to it - how can you ask kids to swear allegience to their country? Are you going to toss them out if they don't want to?